All the extra money we pay into the economy via second insurance policys,servicing/repair costs,site fee's when we go away and if as the goverment would have you believe 4x4's are "gas guzzlers" then dont we already get shafted via all the tax we pay on the extra fuel we are supposed to burning off just for the fun of it ???
yep I have a big car too, makes up for the other diminiutive deficiencies.
Wish I'd renewed my car tax before the bufget instead of leaving it til the end of the month, still
... as others have said its the fuel that really draws the tax revenue.
My pick-up averages 26MPG, regardless of whether its laden or empty. By laden I mean carrying 3/4 to a ton in weight. How many car trips would that need? If it took 4 tripe, then the car would have to do 104MPG to save on fuel.
I know a few other factors come into it, but basically the more fuel you use the more you pollute, but also the more fuel you use the more duty you pay on fuel,
So if I use 2000 litres a year (say 12000 miles) I am paying about £2000, a good chunk of which is tax.
I don't really have to have 4 wheel drive, and I don't need a tow bar, but it has to be tough and it has to carry the weight and have the space.
I would rather have a nice car , but I have what I need. And I guess a quid or so extra per week isn't the end of the world. Its not the dosh that bothers me its the logic to try and justify it.
Am I going to do less miles because my RFL has gone up? No I do what I need to do. I don;t go out and take my Aunt Mabel out for a Sunday spin in the pick-up, Her falsies would drop out on the first bump.
So what effect will this have other than raising revenue? Zilch.
As others have said get cleaner fuels and do something about traffic jams. I don't care how big or small your engine or vehicle... What I do know is that we all do Zero MPH when we sit in jams, with the engine on so we can keep the climate control on and not get poisoned by fumes!!!.
Some people obviously need 4*4s, for work etc. I spent most of last year working in a disaster area and couldn't have gotten anywhere without one, and constatnly had to stop to winch other vehicles out of trouble. But have you seen most 4*4 on the road here?? Especially the new range rovers and vehicles like them? There's now way they'd be any good offroad or for work anywhere, they're so low to the ground, unless you worked as a pimp or a drug dealer. And frankly, people who drive cars in general and gas guzzlers especially, whether they're 4*4 or not need to be discouraged, because a huge amount of the pollution caused by cars has already happened before they're even turned on the first time. Because a huge percentage of the emissions are created during the building of the cars. Global warming is a SERIOUS issue, and one that'd going to matter more and more to all of us, so whether we like it or not, changes are going to happen sooner or later...
Gloabal warming started before the blast furnace was invented....before the industrial revolution.
The "natural state" of the planet is NOT the one we live in now....it's a state where CO2 was higher, so was the humidity and so was the temperature.....
In fact, I'm totally peed-off with the global warming industry...
Too wet ?
Global warming !
Too dry ?
Global warming !
Too hot ?
Global warming...
etc
etc
Putting taxes up to suppress the emission of CO2 is like freezing water in your fridge and sending it to the parched areas of the planet to end the drought.
It makes more sense to kill cattle....their farts do more damage than my car...
However....back to cars....have you thought of putting your cars on one policy and not having one for each ?
I think the issue here is not a tax on 4x4 in particular, just large engines that by vurtue of some fuzzy logic ie the bigger the motor the more polution ( an we all want to stop pollution ...) means that the more you pay. Ironic in that as I had a landrover once that was roadtax exempt, cheap-ish as in I didnt go very far very fast and by some little modifications did about 20 to the gallon on unleaded ! I now have a small car pay a decreased road tax have slightly more range, can "put my foot down" and probably can do everything I did before , except pull a tractor out of a ditch ! I do miss the Landrover tho, but petrol will never be 6d a gallon again and technology gives me as much performance from a 1.4 litre that you could only get from a 2 litre plus years ago.
I don't quite agree that you need a big car to pull a caravan ! ok, if we are talking big as in showmans trailer well ok, but having got your average towing caravan on site, its not too difficult to move it by hand provided the ground is not soft. its more to do with balance and although towing with a small car eg braking and speed is harder and .remembering the towing max speed is 50/60 MPH the only advantage comes in steep hills where you need that traction power. Unless you tow big things all the time then really a big motor is no so practical . I remember some years back some local lads had a bedford CF 2 litre diesel van which was cut down and they got a artic lorry type mount grafted on to it ! they pulled a sort of long box trailer which when laden was a few tons ! with no probs !
This topic is mixing up several different concepts, and I think it's in danger of becoming a slaging match rather than a discussion.
2 wheel drive vs 4x4: Lumping all 'chelsea tractors' together is missing the point, which is that almost nobody needs a 4x4 instead of a 2wd version of the same vehicle. In the late 80s, Audi won some rallys with the 4x4 Quattro, and from then on it's become something of a status symbol. 4 wheel drive is bolted onto lots of cars where it's totally inappropriate - Ford even made a 4x4 Granada!
The fact is that if you don't go seriously off road, then you are paying for and carrying around a lot of mechanicals that you really don't need, which soak up petrol and therefore pump out emissions unnesessarily.
The next topic is safety. I'm fed up with the chant of "I need a 4x4 to be safe" - I'm sorry, but the heavier your verhicle, the more likely you are to kill whoever you hit in an accident. The truth is that tall 4x4s are far more likely to roll over than normal cars, and 4x4 pick-up trucks (the worst of the breed) are counted as commerical vehicles and are exempt from lots of safety laws. Even if it was true that 4x4s are safer, we are in danger of starting an arms race, with everyone wanting to be bigger, taller and heavier than everyone else on the road - which is already happening in America.
As for towing a caravan... why isn't the government encouraging you to buy a second, more economical car to use when you are not towing? Tax discs actively discourage this. Where's the tax encouragement to build lighter caravans? The government is dressing up a cynical tax grab by pretending it's 'for the environment', which really annoys me.
Can't find any CO2 data online, but the MPGs probably give a good indication...
Ford Scorpio 2.9 24v Ultima
Weight: 1781kg (owners manual says it's suitable for towing up to 2000kg)
Urban MPG: 19.5
MPG at steady 56mph: 34.4
Driver Saftey Rating: 4 stars
Pedestrian Safety rating: 3 stars
Vauxhall Frontera 2.2 DTL 16v
Weight: 1820kg
Urban MPG: 18
MPG at steady 56mph: 21
Driver Saftey Rating: 3 stars
Pedestrian Safety rating: 1 star
Owner's fuel consumption figures will vary wildly, depending on use, and are almost always better than the government standardaised tests. I've seen everything from under 30mpg to over 65 from my current car, which has an official figure in the high 50s.
Without knowing a make and model and looking at the official figures you can't make a reliable comparison.
I'm not going to spress Steve_mids for his specific make/model/engine size becasue that's prying, but it's a simple fact of physics that aerodynamic cars are more economical than tall boxy ones, and no amount of pride of ownership is going to alter that!
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:roll:
not difficult. and yes its what i would do.
