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the death penalty.

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Quote by kentswingers777
Being locked up like that must have an affect on the mental state of someone but lets face it who cares about a child murderer or .

I care. cool
Then sorry to say....shame on you!
you have nothing to be sorry for you are more than welcome to your opinion.
I feel no shame as without people who care the world would be a poorer place.
Quote by splendid_
Being locked up like that must have an affect on the mental state of someone but lets face it who cares about a child murderer or .

I care. cool
Then sorry to say....shame on you!
you have nothing to be sorry for you are more than welcome to your opinion.
I feel no shame as without people who care the world would be a poorer place.
Care for people that deserve that care. If you are really serious and say you care about the likes of Ian Huntley, then thank God you are in the minority. Most would not spit on him if he was on fire, and I for one would just walk on by, and would feel no guilt at all.
That is one of the problems we now face, people are just too quick to " care " about the criminals and not give a stuff about the " victims ". Jon Gaunt has it exactly right.
After reading this thread, with the pro’s and cons of the death penalty being heatedly debated. The one thing that should be more relevant is what the victim or the families of the victim should think would be the right punishment for the offence committed on them or their loved one.
Yes I do believe that the death penalty should be bought back into the British law for certain heinous crimes, but only carried out if it is the wishes of the said mentioned party’s after five years of the trial, they can then decide if the accused should serve life or end that persons life.
As all seem to agree that the sentencing in this country is too lenient, then life should mean incarceration for twenty-five years without early release and persistent offenders of more serious crimes not released after three convictions.
Quote by kentswingers777
Being locked up like that must have an affect on the mental state of someone but lets face it who cares about a child murderer or .

I care. cool
Then sorry to say....shame on you!
you have nothing to be sorry for you are more than welcome to your opinion.
I feel no shame as without people who care the world would be a poorer place.
Care for people that deserve that care. If you are really serious and say you care about the likes of Ian Huntley, then thank God you are in the minority. Most would not spit on him if he was on fire, and I for one would just walk on by, and would feel no guilt at all.
That is one of the problems we now face, people are just too quick to " care " about the criminals and not give a stuff about the " victims ". Jon Gaunt has it exactly right.
caring is an infinite 'thing' in my opinion.
It is also thankfully not an either /or situation.
I don't care about people to the detriment of other people. I am kinda speshul like that.
8-)
Quote by splendid_
Being locked up like that must have an affect on the mental state of someone but lets face it who cares about a child murderer or .

I care. cool
Then sorry to say....shame on you!
you have nothing to be sorry for you are more than welcome to your opinion.
I feel no shame as without people who care the world would be a poorer place.
Care for people that deserve that care. If you are really serious and say you care about the likes of Ian Huntley, then thank God you are in the minority. Most would not spit on him if he was on fire, and I for one would just walk on by, and would feel no guilt at all.
That is one of the problems we now face, people are just too quick to " care " about the criminals and not give a stuff about the " victims ". Jon Gaunt has it exactly right.
caring is an infinite 'thing' in my opinion.
It is also thankfully not an either /or situation.
I don't care about people to the detriment of other people. I am kinda speshul like that.
8-)
Sorry but that is not an answer. Ok do you care about Huntly or the Moors murderers?
Quote by kentswingers777
Being locked up like that must have an affect on the mental state of someone but lets face it who cares about a child murderer or .

I care. cool
Then sorry to say....shame on you!
you have nothing to be sorry for you are more than welcome to your opinion.
I feel no shame as without people who care the world would be a poorer place.
Care for people that deserve that care. If you are really serious and say you care about the likes of Ian Huntley, then thank God you are in the minority. Most would not spit on him if he was on fire, and I for one would just walk on by, and would feel no guilt at all.
That is one of the problems we now face, people are just too quick to " care " about the criminals and not give a stuff about the " victims ". Jon Gaunt has it exactly right.
caring is an infinite 'thing' in my opinion.
It is also thankfully not an either /or situation.
I don't care about people to the detriment of other people. I am kinda speshul like that.
8-)
Sorry but that is not an answer. Ok do you care about Huntly or the Moors murderers?
I didn't realise you had actually asked a question.
But yes, I do care about them both (did you notice you put in an 'or'). As I do the victims and the families.
Quote by splendid_
Being locked up like that must have an affect on the mental state of someone but lets face it who cares about a child murderer or .

I care. cool
Then sorry to say....shame on you!
you have nothing to be sorry for you are more than welcome to your opinion.
I feel no shame as without people who care the world would be a poorer place.
Care for people that deserve that care. If you are really serious and say you care about the likes of Ian Huntley, then thank God you are in the minority. Most would not spit on him if he was on fire, and I for one would just walk on by, and would feel no guilt at all.
That is one of the problems we now face, people are just too quick to " care " about the criminals and not give a stuff about the " victims ". Jon Gaunt has it exactly right.
caring is an infinite 'thing' in my opinion.
It is also thankfully not an either /or situation.
I don't care about people to the detriment of other people. I am kinda speshul like that.
8-)
Sorry but that is not an answer. Ok do you care about Huntly or the Moors murderers?
I didn't realise you had actually asked a question.
But yes, I do care about them both (did you notice you put in an 'or'). As I do the victims and the families.
Will not comment on your reply, will let others answer.
simple comment:
Shows that Slendid is a very special person that can rise above situations....and is a very sincere and careing person. As far as I am concerned..total RESPECT.
Quote by kentswingers777
Will not comment on your reply, will let others answer.

I don't think there's any need for an answer. She's stated an opinion; yours is different from hers. I think you need to agree to disagree and move on, because it's beginning to look as if you're being argumentative with Splendid.
and if we all cared or didnt care about the same things the world would go to hell in a hand cart.
I care too....
I care that the man that did this crime was not at some time in his life seen to have problems and did not receive the possible help that he could have done if it were noticed. Same goes for Ian Huntley....people who commit crimes like this do not do them for a bit of a laugh..they do them because there is something wrong with the right and wrong switch...or because they were themselves horrendously abused.....or they are mentally ill...or..or...or
I watched a documentary on Myra Hindley and again found myself caring because I was brought closer to her life through that documentary...
I also care to the point of tears very often for the victims of these horrendous crimes and for their families left behind.
I'm a human being and I care for other human beings...
I know some folk will say "yeah she wouldnt say that if it were one of her children" well you know what, I will never stop caring because when I cease to care then I'm no longer alive. If it were one of my children, I would be angry, revengeful absolutely distraught but It wouldnt bring my child back would it?
Quote by naughtynymphos1
what punishment would you advocate for this guy??

Life with no parole, but again the question should be why? what possesed a man to do this and does this call a question that maybe not enough is being done to understand and maybe learn to pick up the signs earlier.
thats exactly what he got, a whole life `ll never hurt another child,and will do hard time in a population that knows his crimes.
life don't mean life now days does it, he could be out in 15 years
no he wont, a whole life term sentence means he`s there till he dies.A whole of life tarrif
Quote by annejohn
what punishment would you advocate for this guy??

Life with no parole, but again the question should be why? what possesed a man to do this and does this call a question that maybe not enough is being done to understand and maybe learn to pick up the signs earlier.
thats exactly what he got, a whole life `ll never hurt another child,and will do hard time in a population that knows his crimes.
life don't mean life now days does it, he could be out in 15 years
no he wont, a whole life term sentence means he`s there till he dies.A whole of life tarrif
Unfortunately, the statement above in bold is just not true. Below is a table cut and pasted from a UK govt website. As you can see, the majority of criminals given life sentences are released after only serving between 8 to 12 years.
TABLE 22: Time Between Date of Sentence and First Release for Mandatory Lifers
Time Number of Cases
0 - 2 yrs -
2.1 - 4 yrs 1
4.1 - 6 yrs 1
6.1 - 8 yrs 16
8.1 - 10 yrs 186
10.1 - 12 yrs 168
12.1 - 14 yrs 75
14.1 - 16 yrs 25
16.1 - 18 yrs 9
18.1 - 20 yrs 4
20.1 - 22 yrs 2
22.1 - 24 yrs 3
24.1 - 26 yrs -
26.1 - 28 yrs 1
TOTAL 491
Perhaps those that really "care" about these released criminals will offer them a bed in their home and a job??? I doubt it.
he wasn`t just given a life judge has the option of making a whole life tarrif,which he did in this case
A local man who was always sporting 'he's a victim of society' 'it is not his fault' had his house broken into some years back. That day it was harsh words for the offender. The man had forgotten his liberal stances.
Quote by Freckledbird

Will not comment on your reply, will let others answer.

I don't think there's any need for an answer. She's stated an opinion; yours is different from hers. I think you need to agree to disagree and move on, because it's beginning to look as if you're being argumentative with Splendid.
Oh I get it now then.....I cannot say I think someone is wrong for fear of being " arguementative " ? People dont agree all the time on these threads...its called being " arguementative ". If everyone agreed then whats the point of having an opinion on anything? Also splendid has done a very good job of not agreeing with me for which I thank her for, but dont think she needs somebody to come to her aid!!
i have a question, for those who say "if you kill an innocent person, you deserve to lose your life.."
hypothetical situation.
the death penaly is brought back in the uk, someone is found guilty of murder and senteced to death, person is exectuted.
a couple of years down the line new evidence comes to light that clears convicted person.
so now we have ANOTHER innocent person who has been killed, does that not make THEIR exectution murder? who is going to suffer the death penalty for THEIR death?
i applaud what splendid has to say, she is right in saying that you can despise who and what a person i and has done, but that does not mean you can not care about them as a human.
i also agree that the death penalty is NOT a deterant, it is retaliation and has no place in our society. the people who have mentioned China as a good example of prisoners being used to harvest organs, well i hardly believe China is a place we want to follw in regrds to how we treat ANYONE, not just prisoners!
and as for the victims relatives making a choice over the death penalty, they are the LAST people who should decide. taking another persons life is not something that should be don e for revenge, and that is exactly what it would be if the victims nearest and dearest were given a choice.
before anyone tries to p[atronise me and tell me i wopuld feel differently if i was a victim or had relatives who were, let me tell you i HAVE been a victim, i have suffered in ways that you would not begin to imagine.
let me tell you now, that knowing a certain person had been murdered ( because lets face it - taking somones life IS murder) would not have helped me, how would it have taken away what i went through?
the thing that helps me the most is knowing that i have moved on and have made a sucsess of my life despite what took place, and knowing that i can hold my head up high and have nothing tio feel ashamed about, i tell you now - i would not be able to do that if i was responsible for the death of another human being!
on a final note, slurpy sarah - you have made comments about the criminals not deserving human rights, however, i noticed you made comments in another thread recently saying that CHILDREN should not have any rights until they started to make a contribution to society, and so i am begining to wonder who you DO believe deserves to have human rights?
Quote by firelizard
I care too....
I know some folk will say "yeah she wouldnt say that if it were one of her children" well you know what, I will never stop caring because when I cease to care then I'm no longer alive. If it were one of my children, I would be angry, revengeful absolutely distraught but It wouldnt bring my child back would it?

Says it all for me too :thumbup:
Quote by Freckledbird

FYI

Well I learned a few things from that - thanks.
you're most welcome....... i wonder if anyne else read it....... and if so, what do they think?
Quote by kentswingers777

Will not comment on your reply, will let others answer.

I don't think there's any need for an answer. She's stated an opinion; yours is different from hers. I think you need to agree to disagree and move on, because it's beginning to look as if you're being argumentative with Splendid.
Oh I get it now then.....I cannot say I think someone is wrong for fear of being " arguementative " ? People dont agree all the time on these threads...its called being " arguementative ". If everyone agreed then whats the point of having an opinion on anything? Also splendid has done a very good job of not agreeing with me for which I thank her for,]but dont think she needs somebody to come to her aid!!
is it my imagination but is there a huge whole in your "argument".
On May 20, 1998, the House of Commons voted to ratify the 6th Protocol of the European Convention on Human Rights prohibiting capital punishment except "in time of war or imminent threat of war." The last remaining provisions for the death penalty under military jurisdiction (including in wartime) were removed when section 21(5) of the Human Rights Act 1998 came into force on 9 November 1998. The UK later (10 October 2003; effective from 1 February 2004) acceded to the 13th Protocol, which prohibits the death penalty under all circumstances, so that the UK may no longer legislate to restore the death penalty while it is subject to the Convention.
Does anyone realise we are debating something that will never be
Great deterrent
Notable executions
Note: This list does not include the beheadings of nobility.
1305: William Wallace, Scottish resistance fighter, was hanged, drawn and quartered for treason.
1499: Perkin Warbeck, pretender to the throne, was hanged at Tyburn.
1606: On 31 January the Gunpowder Plotters of 1605 were hanged, drawn and quartered.
1612: Edward Wightman became the last person in England to be burnt at the stake for heresy, at Lichfield.
1660: At the English Restoration nine regicides were hanged, drawn and quartered for their part in the death of King Charles I. Also John Bradshaw, Oliver Cromwell, and Henry Ireton were posthumously executed: disinterred from Westminster Abbey and hanged, drawn, and quartered.
1681: Oliver Plunkett was hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn on July 1, 1681, becoming the last Catholic martyr to die in England.
1684: Temperance Lloyd, Mary Trembles and Susanna Edwards became the last people to be hanged for witchcraft in Britain.
1708: Michael Hammond, aged 7, and his sister, aged 11, were reputedly hanged at Lynn for felony. If true, Michael would have been the youngest person ever to suffer the death penalty in Britain.
1724: Jack Sheppard, house-breaker, was hanged at Tyburn for burglary on 16 November after four successful escape attempts from jail. His partner-in-crime, highwayman Joseph "Blueskin" Blake, was similarly executed for the same burglary five days earlier.
1725: Jonathan Wild, criminal overlord and fraudulent "Thief Taker General", was hanged at Tyburn on May 24 (over six months after Jack Sheppard's and Blueskin's executions) for actually aiding criminals.
1739: Dick Turpin, highwayman, was hanged.
1746: Nine Catholic members of the Manchester Regiment, Jacobites, were hanged, drawn and quartered for treason on Wednesday July 30, 1746 at Kennington Common (now Kennington Park).
1757: John Byng becomes the only British admiral ever executed (by firing squad) by the Royal Navy. His crime was to have failed to "do his utmost" during the Battle of Minorca.
1760: Laurence Shirley, 4th Earl Ferrers was executed at Tyburn on 5 May for the murder of a servant. He is the only peer to have been hanged for murder.
1789: Catherine Murphy was the last woman to be burned to death (legally) in England. The penalty was abolished the next year.
1820: Andrew Hardie and John Baird were hanged and beheaded at Stirling after being tried for their part in the Radical War in Scotland.
1828: William Corder was hanged at Bury St Edmunds on August 11 for the murder of Maria Marten at the Red Barn a year before.
1861: Martin Doyle became the last person to be hanged for attempted murder at Chester on the 27 August.
1868: Frances Kidder became the last woman to be hanged in public on 2 April.
1868: Michael Barrett was executed on 26 May at Newgate Prison for the Fenian bombing at Clerkenwell, the last public hanging in Britain.
1910: Hawley Harvey Crippen was hanged on 23 November in London's Pentonville Prison for the murder of his wife.
1914: Private Thomas Highgate was executed by firing squad on 8 September, the first British soldier to be executed for desertion during the World War I.
1916: Roger Casement was hanged at Pentonville on 3 August for treason as one of the 7 leaders of the failed Irish Easter Rising.
1923: Edith Thompson and Frederick Bywaters are hanged simultaneously on 9 January in London's Holloway and Pentonville Prisons respectively. The case was controversial because Thompson did not directly participate in the murder for which she was hanged.
1941: Josef Jakobs was executed by firing-squad on 15 August, the last execution in the Tower of London.
1946: William Joyce, better known as "Lord Haw-Haw", was hanged for treason on 3 January in London's Wandsworth Prison. He was actually an American citizen, not British, but was convicted of treason because, as the holder of a British passport (albeit one fraudulently obtained), he nevertheless owed allegiance to the British sovereign. Theodore Schurch, hanged for treachery the next day, was the last person to be executed for an offence other than murder; he was executed at Pentonville. As a serviceman he was tried by court-martial.
1947: Walter Rowland was hanged in Manchester on 27 February for the murder of Olive Balchin despite maintaining his innocence. While he had been awaiting execution, another man confessed to the crime. A Home Office report dismissed the latter's confession as a fake, but in 1951 he attacked another woman and was found guilty but insane.
1949: Margaret Allen, aged 43, was hanged on 12 January for killing a 70-year-old woman in the course of a robbery, the first woman to be hanged in Britain for 12 years.
1949: John George Haigh, the "acid-bath murderer", was executed at Wandsworth on 10 August.
1950: Timothy Evans was hanged on 9 March at Pentonville for the murder of his baby daughter at 10 Rillington Place, north-west London. He had also confessed to killing his wife. A fellow inhabitant at the same address, John Christie, later found to be a sexual serial killer, gave key evidence against Evans. Christie was executed in 1953 for the murder of his own wife. Evans received a posthumous pardon in 1966. In 2004 the Court of Appeal refused to consider overturning the conviction due to the costs and resources that would be involved. See 10 Rillington Place.
1950: George Kelly was hanged at Liverpool on 28 March for murder, but had his conviction quashed posthumously by the Court of Appeal in June 2003.
1952: Edward Devlin and Alfred Burns were executed on 25 April for killing a woman during a robbery in Liverpool. They claimed that they had been doing a different burglary in Manchester, and others involved in the crime supported this. A Home Office report rejected this evidence. Huge crowds gathered outside Liverpool's Walton Prison as they were executed.
1952: Mahmood Hussein Mattan, a Somali seaman, was hanged on 3 September in Cardiff for murder. The Court of Appeal quashed his conviction posthumously in 1998 after hearing that crucial evidence implicating another Somali was withheld at his trial.
1953: Derek Bentley was executed on 28 January at Wandsworth prison as an accomplice to the murder of a police officer by his 16-year-old friend Christopher Craig. Craig, a minor, was not executed and instead served 10 years. Derek Bentley was granted a posthumous pardon on July 29, 1993. The Court of Appeal overturned his conviction on 30 July 1998.
1953: John Reginald Halliday Christie was executed on 15 July at Pentonville for the murder of his wife Ethel.
1954: Styllou Christofi, aged 53, penultimate woman executed by Britain on 13 December.
1955: Ruth Ellis, aged 28, was executed on 13 July, the 15th, youngest, and last woman to be hanged in Britain in the 20th century.
1959: Guenther Podola was executed on 5 November 1959, the last person to be hanged for the murder of a policeman.
1960: Francis Forsyth was hanged on 10 November, the last 18-year-old to be executed in Britain; Anthony Joseph Miller, 19, was hanged in Glasgow's Barlinnie Prison on 22 December 1960, the last teenager to be executed in Britain.
1961: Robert McGladdery, 25, was hanged on December 20 in Crumlin Road Gaol in Belfast, the last person to be executed in Northern Ireland, for the murder of Pearl Gamble in Newry.
1962: James Hanratty was executed at Bedford on 4 April after a controversial -murder trial. In 2002 Hanratty's body was exhumed and the Court of Appeal upheld his conviction after Hanratty's DNA was linked to crime scene samples.
1963: Henry Burnett, aged 21, was executed on 15 August at Craiginches Prison in Aberdeen for the murder of seaman Thomas Guyan, the last hanging in Scotland.
1964: Peter Anthony Allen, at Walton Prison in Liverpool, and Gwynne Owen Evans, at Strangeways Prison in Manchester, were executed on 13 August at 8 a.m. for the murder of John Alan West, the last people executed in Britain .
References
1 Punishments at the Old Bailey--Late 17th Century to Early 19th Century. The Old Bailey Proceedings Online (2003). Retrieved on 2007-03-13.
2 Gatrell, V. A. C., The Hanging Tree, OUP, Oxford, 1994
3 Naval Discipline Act 1957, section 93; previously Naval Discipline Act (1866), section 6.
4 Last executions in the UK
5 Naval Discipline Act 1957, section 93.
6 Human Rights Act 1998 (Amendment) Order 2004
7 13th Protocol
8 Bowcott, Owen (2001). Caribbean severs link to privy council. The Guardian. Retrieved on 2007-03-13.
9
10 Human Rights (Amendment) (Jersey) Order 2006
11 Human Rights (Jersey) Law 2000
12 Report by the Bailiwick of Guernsey (page 5)
13 UN Human Rights report para. 46
14
15 Human Rights Act 2001 (13th Protocol) Order 2004
16 Human Rights Act 2001 (Appointed Day) (No. 2) Order 2006
17
Quote by tyracer
i used to watch his jail cam live online before it got taken down.
Very good it was.

You watch people in prison.
That's just weird and sick.
Quote by Garfield1
Does anyone realise we are debating something that will never be

That's never stopped debate before. And there's always this bit:
'the UK may no longer legislate to restore the death penalty while it is subject to the Convention.'
If/when they are not subject to the European Convention, they could legislate. Never say never.
Quote by Garfield1
1660: John Bradshaw, Oliver Cromwell, and Henry Ireton were posthumously executed: disinterred from Westminster Abbey and hanged, drawn, and quartered.

What was the point of that, if they were already dead? confused
Quote by Freckledbird

1660: John Bradshaw, Oliver Cromwell, and Henry Ireton were posthumously executed: disinterred from Westminster Abbey and hanged, drawn, and quartered.

What was the point of that, if they were already dead? confused
Spite!
A bit like a woman constantly nagging us men after we marry them
bolt
Dave_Notts
Quote by Dave__Notts

1660: John Bradshaw, Oliver Cromwell, and Henry Ireton were posthumously executed: disinterred from Westminster Abbey and hanged, drawn, and quartered.

What was the point of that, if they were already dead? confused
Spite!
A bit like a woman constantly nagging us men after we marry them

bolt
Dave_Notts
oooooohhhhh Dave....you can run hunny, but you can't hide smackbottom
Quote by Bonedigger

1660: John Bradshaw, Oliver Cromwell, and Henry Ireton were posthumously executed: disinterred from Westminster Abbey and hanged, drawn, and quartered.

What was the point of that, if they were already dead? confused
Spite!
A bit like a woman constantly nagging us men after we marry them

bolt
Dave_Notts
oooooohhhhh Dave....you can run hunny, but you can't hide smackbottom
He can't even run that bloody fast! rolleyes lol
Treason is still punishable with the death penalty.
Quote by Freckledbird

1660: John Bradshaw, Oliver Cromwell, and Henry Ireton were posthumously executed: disinterred from Westminster Abbey and hanged, drawn, and quartered.

What was the point of that, if they were already dead? confused
Spite!
A bit like a woman constantly nagging us men after we marry them

bolt
Dave_Notts
oooooohhhhh Dave....you can run hunny, but you can't hide smackbottom
He can't even run that bloody fast! rolleyes lol
But I can wobble quick :lol:
Dave_Notts
Quote by duncanlondon
Treason is still punishable with the death penalty.

errr not since 1998
After abolition of the death penalty for murder it became a tradition for Parliament to hold a free vote on a motion proposing the restoration of capital punishment in each session. This motion has always been defeated. However, the death penalty still survived for other crimes, namely:
treason (until 1998),
piracy with violence (until 1998),
causing a fire or explosion in a naval dockyard, ship, magazine or warehouse (until 1971),
espionage (until 1981), and
certain crimes under the jurisdiction of the armed forces, such as mutiny (until 1998).
Quote by Garfield1
Treason is still punishable with the death penalty.

errr not since 1998
After abolition of the death penalty for murder it became a tradition for Parliament to hold a free vote on a motion proposing the restoration of capital punishment in each session. This motion has always been defeated. However, the death penalty still survived for other crimes, namely:
treason (until 1998),
piracy with violence (until 1998),
causing a fire or explosion in a naval dockyard, ship, magazine or warehouse (until 1971),
espionage (until 1981), and
certain crimes under the jurisdiction of the armed forces, such as mutiny (until 1998).
its true the gallows uptill 1998 was tested at wandsworth prison twice a year...just incase it was ever needed again...it has been dismantled now.