the death penalty.

17 Feb 2008

Quote by Garfield1
Treason is still punishable with the death penalty.

errr not since 1998
After abolition of the death penalty for murder it became a tradition for Parliament to hold a free vote on a motion proposing the restoration of capital punishment in each session. This motion has always been defeated. However, the death penalty still survived for other crimes, namely:
treason (until 1998),
piracy with violence (until 1998),
causing a fire or explosion in a naval dockyard, ship, magazine or warehouse (until 1971),
espionage (until 1981), and
certain crimes under the jurisdiction of the armed forces, such as mutiny (until 1998).
>>>>Breathes sigh of relief<<<<

18 Feb 2008

Quote by Garfield1
Treason is still punishable with the death penalty.

errr not since 1998
After abolition of the death penalty for murder it became a tradition for Parliament to hold a free vote on a motion proposing the restoration of capital punishment in each session. This motion has always been defeated. However, the death penalty still survived for other crimes, namely:
treason (until 1998),
piracy with violence (until 1998),
causing a fire or explosion in a naval dockyard, ship, magazine or warehouse (until 1971),
espionage (until 1981), and
certain crimes under the jurisdiction of the armed forces, such as mutiny (until 1998).
Well, I stand corrected.
Isn't there something we can hang a person for? rolleyes

18 Feb 2008

Quote by duncanlondon
Treason is still punishable with the death penalty.

errr not since 1998
After abolition of the death penalty for murder it became a tradition for Parliament to hold a free vote on a motion proposing the restoration of capital punishment in each session. This motion has always been defeated. However, the death penalty still survived for other crimes, namely:
treason (until 1998),
piracy with violence (until 1998),
causing a fire or explosion in a naval dockyard, ship, magazine or warehouse (until 1971),
espionage (until 1981), and
certain crimes under the jurisdiction of the armed forces, such as mutiny (until 1998).
Well, I stand corrected.
Isn't there something we can hang a person for? rolleyes

yes...writing and acting...have you seen Eastenders lately?....bloody criminal!

18 Feb 2008

Quote by duncanlondon
Treason is still punishable with the death penalty.

'fraid not. No death penalty in UK

18 Feb 2008

There is ample evidence that such mistakes are possible - in the USA, 116 people sentenced to death have been found innocent since 1973 and released from death row. The average time on death row before these exonerations was 9 years.

And for another thrilling read:

19 Feb 2008

Quote by keeno

i used to watch his jail cam live online before it got taken down.
Very good it was.

You watch people in prison.
That's just weird and sick.
you only got to see the booking in at the front desk.
No different to watching crime inc on tv.

19 Feb 2008

We couldn't trust this government or the alternatives to be able to use the death penalty responsibly. There are too many people sitting in jail for virtually nothing. Meanwhile spoilt indisciplined adolescents are running around at night creating havoc, those who stand up to them are being murdered.
I would bring in the same gun laws that they have in the USA. We know the criminals and the police are armed, so why not law abiding citizens?
I spoke to a guy in Florida last month, he said they don't get mugged or set upon in the street much over there. Nobody can be sure their intended target is no packing a gun.

19 Feb 2008

Quote by BrightonGeezer
We couldn't trust this government or the alternatives to be able to use the death penalty responsibly. There are too many people sitting in jail for virtually nothing. Meanwhile spoilt indisciplined adolescents are running around at night creating havoc, those who stand up to them are being murdered.
I would bring in the same gun laws that they have in the USA. We know the criminals and the police are armed, so why not law abiding citizens?
I spoke to a guy in Florida last month, he said they don't get mugged or set upon in the street much over there. Nobody can be sure their intended target is no packing a gun.

I think I read somewhere that there death rate for accidental shootings were higher than the villians shooting people. If it is true then it won't reduce the deaths.
Dave_Notts

20 Feb 2008

Is the body of this debate still twitching at the end of it's rope? Creaking...
I'd have thought by this point the body would have been cut down for quartering and the head posted on a pike at the Town Gate...
did it's bowels loose?
lp

21 Feb 2008

Dearest Members,
This afternoon I the pleasure to listen to Lofti Raissi on Simon Mayo’s afternoon show on BBC Radio 5 Live (21st February 2008).
For those of you that don’t know who Mr. Lofti Raissi is; then please have a read of the following:

It seems that the State in collusion with the Crown Prosecution Service got this case very wrong indeed.
If we did have a Death Penalty in the UK would it therefore mean that this innocent citizen would have been wrongly killed?
I would recommend for all the supporters of the re-introduction of the Death Penalty please listen to the horrid experiences of
Mr. Raissi dealing with the British Justice System:

His words are stronger than this post, very emotional indeed.
Many thanks & I look forward to your various replies.

21 Feb 2008

Quote by Wunderhorse
Dearest Members,
This afternoon I the pleasure to listen to Lofti Raissi on Simon Mayo’s afternoon show on BBC Radio 5 Live (21st February 2008).
For those of you that don’t know who Mr. Lofti Raissi is; then please have a read of the following:

It seems that the State in collusion with the Crown Prosecution Service got this case very wrong indeed.
If we did have a Death Penalty in the UK would it therefore mean that this innocent citizen would have been wrongly killed?
I would recommend for all the supporters of the re-introduction of the Death Penalty please listen to the horrid experiences of
Mr. Raissi dealing with the British Justice System:

His words are stronger than this post, very emotional indeed.
Many thanks & I look forward to your various replies.

Have not read it as can guess along the lines of what it says. Maybe you should listen to the harrowing story Sarah Paynes family have said, or the woman whose husband wes recently kicked to death or.........
There are two sides to every story. I just want a proper justice system where the criminals get what they deserve, and the liberals who think more about the poor criminals rights, than that of the innocent victims. evil

21 Feb 2008

'liberals' care about everyone equally in my opinion.
If I am typical of a 'liberal' then a justice system that is fair and just is also something I want. I think we have a good one. It could be improved in many ways especially the discrimination that results in men and women who have commited the same crime getting different sentences. Black people getting tougher sentencing than white. Innocent people being convicted and then subsequently released.
I am thankful that our society saw fit to remove the inhumane death penalty many years ago. cool

We just need to resolve the prejudices that are in the system.

21 Feb 2008

Have not read it as can guess along the lines of what it says.
you cant debate a point by ignoring facts or having a closed mind

21 Feb 2008

Quote by Wunderhorse
Dearest Members,
This afternoon I the pleasure to listen to Lofti Raissi on Simon Mayo’s afternoon show on BBC Radio 5 Live (21st February 2008).
For those of you that don’t know who Mr. Lofti Raissi is; then please have a read of the following:

It seems that the State in collusion with the Crown Prosecution Service got this case very wrong indeed.
If we did have a Death Penalty in the UK would it therefore mean that this innocent citizen would have been wrongly killed?
I would recommend for all the supporters of the re-introduction of the Death Penalty please listen to the horrid experiences of
Mr. Raissi dealing with the British Justice System:

His words are stronger than this post, very emotional indeed.
Many thanks & I look forward to your various replies.

From the links above it seems this man was alleged to have been a terrorist.....he was arrested and then held in cutody pending an extridition.
Our justice system then needed "proof" before he was extridited. This never materialised and he was released.
That is a fair justice system to me. It would be the same as if he was alleged to have committed murder......held on remand and if found not guilty in a court of law, he would have been released.
I love reading Wunderhorses' posts but this time you have confused me bud. The man was found innocent. So even if we had the death penalty......we wouldn't have hung him (unless he was acting on Eastenders, then I would have pulled the lever myself lol

)
Dave_Notts

23 Feb 2008

Quote by Dave__Notts
I love reading Wunderhorses' posts but this time you have confused me bud. The man was found innocent. So even if we had the death penalty......we wouldn't have hung him...

Am sorry if my last post on this thread didn’t make its point in a clear fashion.
That’s down to my Dyslexia which means I have ‘millions of ideas in my head that my hands can’t match in typing speed’.
My point is the following:
If ‘The State’ can deliberately pursue what they know is an innocent citizen through the legal system then the re-introduction of
The Death Penalty is a mistake.
The State continues to make serious mistakes from the Invasion of Iraq to the missing sensitive information about its citizens in various incidents. Just to name a few…
Giving ‘The State’ the power to legally execute people is asking for trouble.
As I’ve mentioned previously the relationship between the Crown Prosecution Service & whoever is in Government, run’s the risk of becoming Political instead of Justice being at its core.
I have serious doubts about current politics within the U.K as it seems to me all about ‘creating spin’ with the intention of just grabbing Headlines that scroll at the bottom of Sky or BBC News 24.
An example of this hypocritical attitude is the recent trip to China by the Prime Minster accompanied by ‘the cream of British Business’ to promote our ‘great nation’.
Please be aware that the same Prime Minster speaks about various leaders of other nations that ‘commit crimes against humanity & fail to promote democracy’.
According to various Human Rights organizations; the nation of China executes more of its own people than the rest of nations that have The Death Penalty combined…!!
So we have our ‘elected’ Leader speaking about Human Rights then making Business Deals with a regime that fails to provide the mentioned liberties for its citizens..??
This is why the re-introduction of The Death Penalty, should NEVER happen in the United Kingdom. We would give Politicians far too much power that could see our own nation going closer to China.
Another personal belief is that as a society we like simple answers to complicated questions. Maybe this is due to us having to deal with so much information in our daily lives interlinked with the wonderful ‘Target Drive Society’. As a nation if things are going to get better then we need to transform our attitudes / mindsets.
Instead of understandable urge of wanting to see a Man hang for the sexual assault & murder of an innocent Child, shouldn’t we investigate WHY this happens?
Is it just that for the majority that are follow the rules you are always going to have a minority that will break them? How do we help or prevent people breaking the rules?
This is what I believe is the question.
For more information watch the film ‘Minority Report’.
Explains this argument in an more entertaining fashion.
In the end who do we need protection from the criminals or the people responsible in catching them?
Am not a supporter of any political party – mainstream & smaller.
I just think that at this time Politics is letting the people down.
Its time to ‘get real’ yet this doesn’t mean easy solutions to complicated issues in all issues within our Society.
As the Buddhists say: ‘Life is Hell & about suffering’.
Therefore the question is how do YOU cope with this suffering?
I hope this made my previous points clear (re-read them & link them together)& its been insightful.
In a ‘nutshell’ be very careful when dealing with Politicians.
As a person I have views on Society that are hard-line & liberal.
From,
Wunderhorse.

25 Feb 2008

Let us ask why someone takes delight in killing or . They enjoy it! They do it, get a high and then do it again! and again! and again! It is like each one of us we have sex, enjoy it and have sex again. Now we could claim they are sick, sick like us? Or we could punish them in the hope of controlling others, and stopping others from killing and . Or we could say we can not stop them, but we can, a man six feet under will not kill again!
Prevention and understanding does not preclude terminal penalties.
Travis

25 Feb 2008

Quote by Wunderhorse
That’s down to my Dyslexia which means I have ‘millions of ideas in my head that my hands can’t match in typing speed’.

That's not dyslexia - loads of people have millions of ideas and can't type. confused

25 Feb 2008

Each side of this debate have their own ideas.
Each side is right, according to their ideas and ideals.
At the end of the day there is some satisfaction in ensuring that a person guilty of deliberate murder is punished according to the crime they committed.
There remains the problem of an innocent person being murdered by the state (us) for killing/ nobody.
If it is ok, by you, to kill the occasional innocent person in order to prevent others killing/ people, then that is your problem.
Except that the death penalty will not prevent those of non-sane minds, or those in the grip of intense emotion, from committing any offence.
And there is little evidence that the death penalty would stop the calculating criminal either.
It would, however, make some happy.
Maybe it is time to call a stop to the debate ?

25 Feb 2008

Quote by gothicpunk
You really like starting hot topics, don't you ;)

----------------------------------------captain america is a pussy :twisted:

25 Feb 2008

I could write a 10 page response to this thread but won't.
The thing that annoys me is the fact that my taxes are keeping the likes of ian huntley fed and watered in prison, if we had the death penalty at least he could never come out and my taxes would not pay for him.

26 Feb 2008

Quote by browning
I could write a 10 page response to this thread but won't.
The thing that annoys me is the fact that my taxes are keeping the likes of ian huntley fed and watered in prison, if we had the death penalty at least he could never come out and my taxes would not pay for him.

We are all paying for the Ian Huntleys of Britain. I for one would like my taxes spent better.

26 Feb 2008

Quote by Wunderhorse
I love reading Wunderhorses' posts but this time you have confused me bud. The man was found innocent. So even if we had the death penalty......we wouldn't have hung him...

Am sorry if my last post on this thread didn’t make its point in a clear fashion.
That’s down to my Dyslexia which means I have ‘millions of ideas in my head that my hands can’t match in typing speed’.
My point is the following:
If ‘The State’ can deliberately pursue what they know is an innocent citizen through the legal system then the re-introduction of
The Death Penalty is a mistake.
The State continues to make serious mistakes from the Invasion of Iraq to the missing sensitive information about its citizens in various incidents. Just to name a few…
Giving ‘The State’ the power to legally execute people is asking for trouble.
As I’ve mentioned previously the relationship between the Crown Prosecution Service & whoever is in Government, run’s the risk of becoming Political instead of Justice being at its core.
I have serious doubts about current politics within the U.K as it seems to me all about ‘creating spin’ with the intention of just grabbing Headlines that scroll at the bottom of Sky or BBC News 24.
An example of this hypocritical attitude is the recent trip to China by the Prime Minster accompanied by ‘the cream of British Business’ to promote our ‘great nation’.
Please be aware that the same Prime Minster speaks about various leaders of other nations that ‘commit crimes against humanity & fail to promote democracy’.
According to various Human Rights organizations; the nation of China executes more of its own people than the rest of nations that have The Death Penalty combined…!!
So we have our ‘elected’ Leader speaking about Human Rights then making Business Deals with a regime that fails to provide the mentioned liberties for its citizens..??This is why the re-introduction of The Death Penalty, should NEVER happen in the United Kingdom. We would give Politicians far too much power that could see our own nation going closer to China.
Another personal belief is that as a society we like simple answers to complicated questions. Maybe this is due to us having to deal with so much information in our daily lives interlinked with the wonderful ‘Target Drive Society’. As a nation if things are going to get better then we need to transform our attitudes / mindsets.
Instead of understandable urge of wanting to see a Man hang for the sexual assault & murder of an innocent Child, shouldn’t we investigate WHY this happens?
Is it just that for the majority that are follow the rules you are always going to have a minority that will break them? How do we help or prevent people breaking the rules?
This is what I believe is the question.
For more information watch the film ‘Minority Report’.
Explains this argument in an more entertaining fashion.
In the end who do we need protection from the criminals or the people responsible in catching them?
Am not a supporter of any political party – mainstream & smaller.
I just think that at this time Politics is letting the people down.
Its time to ‘get real’ yet this doesn’t mean easy solutions to complicated issues in all issues within our Society.
As the Buddhists say: ‘Life is Hell & about suffering’.
Therefore the question is how do YOU cope with this suffering?
I hope this made my previous points clear (re-read them & link them together)& its been insightful.
In a ‘nutshell’ be very careful when dealing with Politicians.
As a person I have views on Society that are hard-line & liberal.
From,
Wunderhorse.
With regard to the bit I've quoted in red.
What about if the Chinese Govt. turned round to Gordon Brown or David Milliband (or whoever was critising their human rights record) and said "OK Gordon, you hold a referendum in Britain on the subject of Capital Punishment and when the results are known come and talk to us again"
Think Gordon would dare? I suspect not!!
John

26 Feb 2008

I think that, were, Gordon Brown to do that it would still not be re-introduced.
I, of course, am glad that all this is academic (in a manner of speaking) because the law aint changing. cool

26 Feb 2008

If the people in a democracy vote by fair and legal means for the re-introduction of the death penalty, it should happen. We wont get the chance to vote, but we should.

26 Feb 2008

No one should be able to take anothers life.
Sure we all despise others that murder, kill, ect, yet by killing the person in question doesnt that make us as evil as them.
My apinion not all's

26 Feb 2008

Quote by Geordiecpl2001
From a previous Post by Wunderhorse:
An example of this hypocritical attitude is the recent trip to China by the Prime Minster accompanied by ‘the cream of British Business’ to promote our ‘great nation’.
Please be aware that the same Prime Minster speaks about various leaders of other nations that ‘commit crimes against humanity & fail to promote democracy’.
According to various Human Rights organizations; the nation of China executes more of its own people than the rest of nations that have The Death Penalty combined…!!
So we have our ‘elected’ Leader speaking about Human Rights then making Business Deals with a regime that fails to provide the mentioned liberties for its citizens..??
With regard to the bit I've quoted in red.
What about if the Chinese Govt. turned round to Gordon Brown or David Milliband (or whoever was critising their human rights record) and said "OK Gordon, you hold a referendum in Britain on the subject of Capital Punishment and when the results are known come and talk to us again"
Think Gordon would dare? I suspect not!!
John

26 Feb 2008

Quote by Moon_goddess
No one should be able to take anothers life.
Sure we all despise others that murder, kill, ect, yet by killing the person in question doesnt that make us as evil as them.
My apinion not all's

Possibly - but it stops them repeating the offence. It's about protecting people more than it is about revenge.

26 Feb 2008

Quote by BrightonGeezer
I would bring in the same gun laws that they have in the USA. We know the criminals and the police are armed, so why not law abiding citizens?
I spoke to a guy in Florida last month, he said they don't get mugged or set upon in the street much over there. Nobody can be sure their intended target is no packing a gun.

to that I would say oh hell no!!!
that is one of the things that will get me really angry
i don't think this is the place for this conversation, if you want to pm me, i'll tell you what it is like having a bullet skin past....
if you have had bullets whizzing over your head... you will realise you want no parts of guns, it is one of the reasons I left the states.......
those would be the same gun laws that allowed for example people to own a gun to kill 34 people at Viginia Tech, to kill 6 people at Northern Illinois, to kill 6 at American University in washington, to kill 6 at a town hall meeting in st louis, to kill 5 people in a church in colorado,
and i could go on and on and on......
do you know where the phrase "going postal" comes from? people at post office depots were going nuts and shooting people.......

26 Feb 2008

Quote by Wunderhorse

From a previous Post by Wunderhorse:
An example of this hypocritical attitude is the recent trip to China by the Prime Minster accompanied by ‘the cream of British Business’ to promote our ‘great nation’.
Please be aware that the same Prime Minster speaks about various leaders of other nations that ‘commit crimes against humanity & fail to promote democracy’.
According to various Human Rights organizations; the nation of China executes more of its own people than the rest of nations that have The Death Penalty combined…!!
So we have our ‘elected’ Leader speaking about Human Rights then making Business Deals with a regime that fails to provide the mentioned liberties for its citizens..??
With regard to the bit I've quoted in red.
What about if the Chinese Govt. turned round to Gordon Brown or David Milliband (or whoever was critising their human rights record) and said "OK Gordon, you hold a referendum in Britain on the subject of Capital Punishment and when the results are known come and talk to us again"
Think Gordon would dare? I suspect not!!
John

Don't get what you are saying John...?
Am not being funny or anything just don't get the manner of your point..?
Just to be clear beacuse at times as I've mentioned I can get things mixed up (read previous posts on this thread):
Gordon Brown is Prime Minster.
He makes deals with regimes that do things he claims are wrong.
Therefore, I view him as a hypocrite.
As OUR Government can say that Bruma is wrong yet makes deals with the nation the gives Bruma Weapons.
So do you really want to give the power over life & death to Politicians...!! Beacuse I don't & with recent things going on in U.K Politics...I've lost hope in the system.
Social Justice, Gordon Brown have a word with the poorest people of China or Burma just to name a few.
What's the point in a vote they do it seems what they please.
The point I was making is that, as you say, Politicians, once elected, care very little about the things that matter to ordinary people. I highlighted the fact that if put to a Referendum then Hanging might well be brought back. If you look at an earlier post of mine in this thread I said I would not support capital punishment, but that I would not prevent Ian Huntley and his ilk from committing suicide if they so desired.
I believe that this Country would be much better off if we, like the Swiss and some American States, had much more "direct democracy". Take some of the decisions which directly affect ordinary people OUT of the hands of Politicians. But I also know that it will never happen in this Country!
John

27 Feb 2008

Ok, I'm somewhat behind the times here and I'm kind of glad that all the shouting seems to be over, but I thought I'd chuck on my two pennies.

Quote by foxylady2209
How hard can it be to stop drugs getting into prison?

Just FYI, as someone who has worked inside a high-security jail, the answer is very. They come in on the lawyers and family members; when the prison cracked down on that, the prisoners figured out a way of putting them inside tennis balls and hitting them over the prison walls into the exercise yards; when the prison put nets over the tops, the prisoners started training training the pigeons to bring them in. So all the windows were meshed over... they found another way.

Quote by kentswingers777
Should read my earlier post about convictions or being let off on " unsafe " evidence, when we all know people are guilty!!

Or, what about this one - maybe the evidence was unsafe because they didn't actually do it. It's a very good thing that you can't be locked up or hung on the basis of "we all knew they did it". Proof is a far better standard.

Quote by Seven_up
...sentences meted out to victims such as Farmer Tony Martin...

Let's all take a moment to remember that Tony Martin was proven in court to have shot a child in the back with a gun as the child was running away.