The Dilema

27 Mar 2005

What this actually is about and the circumstances surrounding the dilema, aren't really of relevance, and may or may not having anything to do with this site. But,
I want to do something, as part of a bigger something else.
What i want to do, is unavailable in an equal to everyone sense, but is only a little part of the bigger something.
Do i ?
a) Make attempts at getting what i want knowing that it is underhanded, or
b) Not be underhanded, and not get what i want?
Sitting on a chair of anticipation. :swingingchair: wink

Lots of love hugs and kisses
Little
xxx

27 Mar 2005

depends how your underhandedness affects others really??
confused

27 Mar 2005

Hmmmm depends. I'd say go for it as long as it doesn't involve any innocents getting hurt. Does that help?

27 Mar 2005

Quote by fruity1976
depends how your underhandedness affects others really??

The parties involved may not even recognise it as being underhanded, but i'll know.
The Dilema :!:
Lots of love, hugs and kisses
Little
XXX

27 Mar 2005

well suppose if it doesnt effect anybody else! Fuck it, only way to get what u want sometimes is to go for it! :twisted:

27 Mar 2005

Be selfish and get what you want.
Never regret what you've done, only what you haven't.
Yep i am a selfish git!

27 Mar 2005

Quote by AndyS-NE
Be selfish and get what you want.
Never regret what you've done, only what you haven't.
Yep i am a selfish git!

Selfless?

Lots of love, hugs and kisses
LIttle
XXX

27 Mar 2005

The fact that you started a thread about it suggests to me that you are too aware of the personal moral implications, and stand a good chance of beating yourself up afterward. My advice would be `not`.
Those who would get away with it wouldn`t have given it a second thought. wink

Venusxxx

27 Mar 2005

Am I the only one who's 'intrigued by this?
OK so I'm a nosy cow confused

27 Mar 2005

Quote by freckledbird
Am I the only one who's 'intrigued by this?
OK so I'm a nosy cow

I could not have said it better myself :lol:
Dave_Notts

27 Mar 2005

Quote by Dave__Notts
Am I the only one who's 'intrigued by this?
OK so I'm a nosy cow

I could not have said it better myself :lol:
Dave_Notts
Bugger off you

:smackbottom: :smackbottom: :smackbottom: :smackbottom:

27 Mar 2005

I can keep an orifice shut from time to time. wink

Little
XXX

27 Mar 2005

Quote by little
depends how your underhandedness affects others really??

The parties involved may not even recognise it as being underhanded, but i'll know.
The Dilema :!:

Sounds like you've pretty much answered your question already
(Oh and I agree with what Venus posted but dont tell her)
the Laird
xx

27 Mar 2005

Quote by VenusnMars
The fact that you started a thread about it suggests to me that you are too aware of the personal moral implications, and stand a good chance of beating yourself up afterward. My advice would be `not`.:
Venusxxx

I agree with Venus, your conscience could come back to haunt you....
Mike.

27 Mar 2005

Quote by VenusnMars
The fact that you started a thread about it suggests to me that you are too aware of the personal moral implications, and stand a good chance of beating yourself up afterward. My advice would be `not`.
Those who would get away with it wouldn`t have given it a second thought.
Venusxxx

I agree, the fact that you hesitate says that it is something that you feel instictivly will be something that you will later regret

27 Mar 2005

everyone has "free will" to do as they please as long as you do these things without causing harm . so if it is likely to cause harm , then i`d say no ,which is what you`ve more or less decided anyway i guess , good

27 Mar 2005

Quote by MikeNorth
The fact that you started a thread about it suggests to me that you are too aware of the personal moral implications, and stand a good chance of beating yourself up afterward. My advice would be `not`.:
Venusxxx

I agree with Venus, your conscience could come back to haunt you....
Mike.
Not sure if conscience comes into it TBH ! :shock:
Conscience would only ever come into play if the scenario were such that i was morally aware of it being a "wrong" thing to do.
What of the situations? Do we have the right to decide which situations in life are morally wrong. dunno

I could be talking about something like the kids easter eggs which i may, or may not have just eaten. :undecided:
Lots of love, hugs and kisses
Little
XXX

27 Mar 2005

Your litte quotation at the bottom of your profile says it all - Life is Not a Rehearsal, you do something, and it goes wrong, admit it went wrong, say sorry and move on, don`t do something and then regret it, you miss your chance.

27 Mar 2005

Quote by little
The fact that you started a thread about it suggests to me that you are too aware of the personal moral implications, and stand a good chance of beating yourself up afterward. My advice would be `not`.:
Venusxxx

I agree with Venus, your conscience could come back to haunt you....
Mike.
Not sure if conscience comes into it TBH ! :shock:
Conscience would only ever come into play if the scenario were such that i was morally aware of it being a "wrong" thing to do.
What of the situations? Do we have the right to decide which situations in life are morally wrong. dunno

I could be talking about something like the kids easter eggs which i may, or may not have just eaten. :undecided:
Lots of love, hugs and kisses
Little
XXX
You have asked whether you ought to do something underhand (immoral?) to get what you want. You`ve stated that this action could possibly be taken without ill effect to another (which *could* dismantle to morality aspect, pending on whether morality is determined by effect on others; enter unfaithfulness yadda yadda). If it`s not a question concerning concience, then what is the fuel to this thread?
Jesus Little, you don`t fuck around when you start a thread do you?! This has the makings of a scorcher! lol

BTW, If youhave consumed the kids Easter eggs, then you WILL burn in hell. No question. :mrgreen:
Venusxxx

27 Mar 2005

BTW, If you have consumed the kids Easter eggs, then you WILL burn in hell. No question. :mrgreen:
Venusxxx

Hey, all's fair in love and chocolate wink

27 Mar 2005

Why is something called underhanded? If it doesn't hurt anyone, can it by definition be underhanded or "morally wrong"?
In that case, I'd imagine you could go for it. It depends on how bad you might feel afterwards, but often I've hesitated over things, and created reasons not to do something when I should have really gone for it..you don't want to fall into that trap either..

27 Mar 2005

Quote by VenusnMars
The fact that you started a thread about it suggests to me that you are too aware of the personal moral implications, and stand a good chance of beating yourself up afterward. My advice would be `not`.:
Venusxxx

I agree with Venus, your conscience could come back to haunt you....
Mike.
Not sure if conscience comes into it TBH ! :shock:
Conscience would only ever come into play if the scenario were such that i was morally aware of it being a "wrong" thing to do.
What of the situations? Do we have the right to decide which situations in life are morally wrong. dunno

I could be talking about something like the kids easter eggs which i may, or may not have just eaten. :undecided:
Lots of love, hugs and kisses
Little
XXX
You have asked whether you ought to do something underhand (immoral?) to get what you want. You`ve stated that this action could possibly be taken without ill effect to another (which *could* dismantle to morality aspect, pending on whether morality is determined by effect on others; enter unfaithfulness yadda yadda). If it`s not a question concerning concience, then what is the fuel to this thread?
Jesus Little, you don`t fuck around when you start a thread do you?! This has the makings of a scorcher! lol

BTW, If youhave consumed the kids Easter eggs, then you WILL burn in hell. No question. :mrgreen:
Venusxxx
Since i would make a conscious decision to actually participate in the doing, it would only be becuase I wanted in the first place. All levels of consience would/should have been addressed prior to the activity being pursued. If i admit, that I actually WANT to do something, then the end result (whatever the consequences) have no effect on that initial decision, hence, there is no need to feel guilt or shame since i've done exactly what i have wanted to do. If there are consequences, then i'll put my hand up and take the shit, knowing that potentially, there was always a risk of it backfiring in the first place.
Having said all that, taking the first step into the actual doing something, aware of the fact, that there will be no hurtling consciounce to deal with, leaves me sitting with the initial quandry, of, does it make it right??????? Aware of the fact that potentially, no-one will ever know of the deceit, doesn't excuse the fact of its presence either.
Or have i missed your point ? redface

Lots of love, hugs and kisses
Little
XXX

27 Mar 2005

Quote by Culum Struan
Why is something called underhanded? If it doesn't hurt anyone, can it by definition be underhanded or "morally wrong"?
In that case, I'd imagine you could go for it. It depends on how bad you might feel afterwards, but often I've hesitated over things, and created reasons not to do something when I should have really gone for it..you don't want to fall into that trap either..

Touche !
Dilema United 1 - Quandry 0 wink

Lots of love, hugs and kisses
Little
XXX

27 Mar 2005

Here's some quickie (inc some fun) ideas on ways to decide whether to do or not do the thing you have in mind . . .
Does it pass the smell test - does the situation 'smell'?
Does it pass the Mom Test - would you tell her? would she do it?
Does it pass the TV test - would you tell a nationwide audience?
Consistency - what if everyone acted this way?
Are people treated as ends rather than means (principle of respect for others)
Doing good / avoiding harm - who is helped if you do it? Who is harmed?
Personal duties may also come into it - eg trust, integrity, truthfulness, gratitude, justice, self-improvement.
NB Most moral dilemmas don't have a 'right' answer - usually teh best choice is the 'least worst'.
Good luck!
x Chris

27 Mar 2005

It wasn`t so much a point than a question, which you answered. Conscience seems to come in to this quite a bit, in fact even more so than morality, since you are the only one who would be aware of the deceit. So I go back to my first response. :mrgreen:
As for whether it is immoral if you don`t get caught, the immorality exists before you get caught (says I, but this is possibly another `cat in a box debate wink

), it`s just a matter of whether you get away with it or not. I can think of a great many things we wouldn`t do, even if we could get away with it, are there any reasons why this should be any different?
Venusxxx

27 Mar 2005

Your first thought is normally the only true thought, it's the only one that desn't get clouded in guilt or conscience wink

But the best acid test is always "Put the boot on the other foot", how would you feel if it was done to you.
What a great debatable thread lol

:lol:

27 Mar 2005

Quote by VenusnMars
It wasn`t so much a point than a question, which you answered. Conscience seems to come in to this quite a bit, in fact even more so than morality, since you are the only one who would be aware of the deceit. So I go back to my first response. :mrgreen:
As for whether it is immoral if you don`t get caught, the immorality exists before you get caught (says I, but this is possibly another `cat in a box debate ), it`s just a matter of whether you get away with it or not. I can think of a great many things we wouldn`t do, even if we could get away with it, are there any reasons why this should be any different?
Venusxxx

I see your point about conscience actually having a role to play in it. Just made me wonder together with the last few posts though.
Our conscience is made up of little negative reasons as to why something is not a good idea/situation. A sort of perceived logical thinking.
If we come back to the fact that i WANT to do something, and calculatingly go through all the reasons why i WANT to do something in the first place, they are all very selfishly unselfish, in that there isn't anyone who could actually be hurt, by my DOING of the something, if i were to be in that position. - so thats okay ?
Morality, i see as existing within the confines of ourselves. Do i have morals etc I just try to live my life in a way towards others, in a similar way as i would have others deal with me. Quandry ?
The Quandry itself appeared solid ! Culum Struan hit the nail on the head by questioning who defined underhanded? What is the definition of being underhanded? Puts a slightly different angle to the initial question. :shock:

27 Mar 2005

Quote by little
I can keep an orifice shut from time to time.

:lol: :lol:
Which one confused

: :?: :?:
biggrin

:D :D

27 Mar 2005

Gotta agree with Miss V on this one . Its a bit like asking " can I afford a Ferrari?" .if you have to ask , then deep down you already know the answer .

28 Mar 2005

Not a lot to go on here smile

Sounds like you will be the judge - so your conscience will decide. If you want someone to contradict your conscience then that's the path to unhappiness.
When in doubt - don't.