Thats the first thing you DON'T do. Where is the logic in running away from 3 armed policemen? It's London. It's not like it's an anarchistic society where the people rule themselves. We have police and they do their job well. You don't run from them. Even if he was caught - he was innocent (apparently) so he had nothing to hide. You don't run when you're innocent. Never
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Today a man shot in London and another tube station closed
I'll tell you EXACTLY what i'd do - crap my pants and drop to the floor and listen to every single word the nice men say!!!
They wouldn't have shot him if he didn't run. They arrested another guy and simply made him open his shirt, then led him away.
That was a sensible man.
The one who ran may as well have been holding a sign up saying "please shoot me!"
These stupid, stupid Human Rights idiots - Political Correctness gone amok. If he WAS a bomber, and the police hadn't done anything, then another 20+ innocent people could have died.
Well done the Police on this occasion - definitely the right decision.
They wouldn't have shot him if he didn't run. They arrested another guy and simply made him open his shirt, then led him away.
That was a sensible man.
The one who ran may as well have been holding a sign up saying "please shoot me!"
These stupid, stupid Human Rights idiots - Political Correctness gone amok. If he WAS a bomber, and the police hadn't done anything, then another 20+ innocent people could have died.
Well done the Police on this occasion - definitely the right decision.
Like most of you have said "He ran", if he hadnt he'd still be alive...
It was'nt the work of the police MI5, MI6 etc as they aint trained like that....
they've got the the SAS working down there and about time to...
I'm sorry to hear they got an innocent bloke but they can't take the risk when innocent live's are at risk.
It's ok for all these (no offence) muslim leaders to start going on about human rights etc. but its their people that are doing it.
I dont mean to sound racist, if I do I'm sorry but it just bloody annoys me when these people start spouting of about the police been in the wrong, they have done a great job in London and deserve every ounce of respect....
the people that do these attrocities nedd a fooking bullet in the head (or 5)
I'm all angry now..
:( :( :(
It was'nt the work of the police MI5, MI6 etc as they aint trained like that....
they've got the the SAS working down there and about time to...
I'm sorry to hear they got an innocent bloke but they can't take the risk when innocent live's are at risk.
It's ok for all these (no offence) muslim leaders to start going on about human rights etc. but its their people that are doing it.
I dont mean to sound racist, if I do I'm sorry but it just bloody annoys me when these people start spouting of about the police been in the wrong, they have done a great job in London and deserve every ounce of respect....
the people that do these attrocities nedd a fooking bullet in the head (or 5)
I'm all angry now..
:( :( :( 
Sex God
Quote by jezzaySuddenly you are being chased by a number of heavily-armed police. (They were big guns apparently.) Tell me you wouldn't run.
.. and ran from the police... Put yourself on that train for a sec....!
I wouldn't run. I know I can't outrun a bullet and I don't think I can outrun the average policeman, who is probably a lot fitter than me. I'd be wasting my time as well as giving them greater cause than they already have to consider me a threat. I would stop and do exactly as I was told. I would co-operate with them completely until they were satisfied I was not dangerous.
I've stared down a policeman's rifle barrel in Nigeria and lived to tell the tale because I kept my wits about me.
Sexpert
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Quote by BigBoi
Thats the first thing you DON'T do. Where is the logic in running away from 3 armed policemen? It's London. It's not like it's an anarchistic society where the people rule themselves. We have police and they do their job well. You don't run from them. Even if he was caught - he was innocent (apparently) so he had nothing to hide. You don't run when you're innocent. Never
...he's innocent
...he's apparently lived in the uk legally for three years..
...he has a job
..he's chased through London streets by a load of young blokes in casual clothing
why did he run?
..he was a foreigner, ..maybe his English wasn't so good
..maybe he didnt want to get caught with a pocketful of weed
..maybe he had mental health problems
..maybe he thought his pursuers were anti muslim, who had mistaken him for one and he was going to be on the end of a serious kicking..(this has already happened to my mixed race son, who has no connection with Asian communities, religion or extremist views in anyway, his colouring just makes him look Asian)
..maybe it was simple panic
I do feel terribly sorry for this man, his family and the policeman involved as he had no way of knowing this man was innocent, that's why a shoot to kill policy has to be backed up by cast iron surveillance and intelligence.
Quote by alspals
I do feel terribly sorry for this man, his family and the policeman involved as he had no way of knowing this man was innocent, that's why a shoot to kill policy has to be backed up by cast iron surveillance and intelligence.
There is no shoot to kill policy, there is what there always have been, a shot to stop policy. I am sorry this man was shot, but he was shot for the obvious reason that he was a threat. If you run into heathrow, charge through a secure area in a bulky jacket, and head for a crowd of people you will get shot. Try the same thing in most countries and you will get shot.
OK it is unusual in the UK to get shot by the Police for simply running away, but this man did a lot more than run away. It was where he ran than got him into trouble. If he was innocent then the people who are to blame are the terrorists. They made the enviroment that made him seem a risk, and in the end they got him killed.
I do feel sorry for this guys family...........Seems he had nothing to do with the bombings...but the police have one second to make a decision.....the guy came out of a tower block which was believed to house some of the bombers....he acted in a manor to arouse suspision....he was challenged as entering the tube station..at which point he ran and hurdled the entrance stiles.....he ran towards a tube...withy police behind shouting for him to stop informing them they were police....he attempts to board a tube packed with innocent people....you now have 1 second to decide ..shot or handcuffs. Hindsight is easy....but had they attemped to handcuf him and he had blown up a bomb killing any number of people, we would be asking the opposite question....why didn't we stop him before he blew himself up.
Fact is police do have a dificult job....we all know the current terrorist climate...and we simply must do all we can support them.
Fact is police do have a dificult job....we all know the current terrorist climate...and we simply must do all we can support them.
:doh: 
Quote by alspals
...he's innocent
...he's apparently lived in the uk legally for three years..
...he has a job
..he's chased through London streets by a load of young blokes in casual clothing
why did he run?
..he was a foreigner, ..maybe his English wasn't so good
..maybe he didnt want to get caught with a pocketful of weed
..maybe he had mental health problems
..maybe he thought his pursuers were anti muslim, who had mistaken him for one and he was going to be on the end of a serious kicking..(this has already happened to my mixed race son, who has no connection with Asian communities, religion or extremist views in anyway, his colouring just makes him look Asian)
..maybe it was simple panic
Totally agree with you on this one. Thou' unfortunately in war, and that is what it is, war against terrosim', there are going to be innocent casulties.
I feel for all involved but when it boils down to it, I much prefer this outcome than a suicide bomber and a hesitant cop.
I understand the reasoning of the actions taken, doesn't make it any easier to deal with but hopefully some good may come out of it, whatever that good may be.
Like the 7/7 bombing this is all very tragic. The sad thing is the terrorists acts do change our society. Now people are scared to travel on the tubes. Not only because of the bombers but the police as well. The Police also pointed a gun at the head of the tube train driver at stockwell. I understand that the train drivers are very unhappy and are worried about ttheir safety and before any of you start moaning about me having a go at the Police. I am not they have a very difficult job to do under the present circumstances. I think its time for the politicians to sort this problem out.
My own personal Idea on how to solve this problem is that US and British troops should Immediately withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan to be repalced by UN troops from Moslem nations. I think then the Moslem nations should then find a solution to deal with their more radical elements. Then obviously the Israelis and Palestinians need to sit down and start talking which I agree is very difficult.
My own personal Idea on how to solve this problem is that US and British troops should Immediately withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan to be repalced by UN troops from Moslem nations. I think then the Moslem nations should then find a solution to deal with their more radical elements. Then obviously the Israelis and Palestinians need to sit down and start talking which I agree is very difficult.
Sorry but that will not work, what difference would it make to give the country to 'Muslim' troops? In case you have not noticed both the UK and US troops want to pull out of Iraq. Whats stopping them leaving? One Muslim sect blowing up other Muslims. Why? Because all the time we are there they can blame us for everyone who dies, even the ones they kill...
So which Muslims do you want to give the country to? This is not just a religion issue, they will kill anyone regardless of there beliefs or place of birth.
So which Muslims do you want to give the country to? This is not just a religion issue, they will kill anyone regardless of there beliefs or place of birth.
well i look at this and see whats happened an the opinions on it so however pple see this her goes . He was running away from armed "police" (not for 1 minite do i belever they were see what firearms they were using ) he has been in this country for 3 years so he should have had an idea how to speek / understand english he will have been fully aware of the situation in london so entering a tube apparently hiding something under his coat was tantramount to suicide. what if he had been a bomber and hed detonated his device can we afford to take the chances ?? i feel so sorry for his family it has truly been a tradgick affair but then how many of u would have chose to shoot ??? ther has been llot wrote about coulor race ext just to put this in some sligh prospective 6 months ago in hull a man was shot dead by high volocoty rifle round in the head ( not pistol as in tube )what was his crime ?? he had just come back from relief work in africa hed been ther 8 yrs gone the wrong way on a63 ( was used to driving on opposite side of road ) he opened the door of his car for a sword to fall out ( a present from a tribesman ) wen he picked it up armed police decided he was a threat to publick safty he was white and 60 yrs old . wen in doubt u fire its ur life ( or a couple of hundered inocent pple )or thers and i know what my choice is. would it have been different had it turned out to have bee a bomber ext
Quote by tallnhairy
I do feel terribly sorry for this man, his family and the policeman involved as he had no way of knowing this man was innocent, that's why a shoot to kill policy has to be backed up by cast iron surveillance and intelligence.
I am sorry this man was shot, but he was shot for the obvious reason that he was a threat. If you run into heathrow, charge through a secure area in a bulky jacket, and head for a crowd of people you will get shot. Try the same thing in most countries and you will get shot.
OK it is unusual in the UK to get shot by the Police for simply running away, but this man did a lot more than run away. It was where he ran than got him into trouble. If he was innocent then the people who are to blame are the terrorists. They made the enviroment that made him seem a risk, and in the end they got him killed.
You miss the point I was trying to make in my post Tallnhairy. I was not seeking to blame the police, I was trying to offer reasons why this guy ran away. A situation of running away in Heathrow airport would be totally different. There the police are highly visible, they wear clear & distinctive uniforms and therefore are easily identifiable as law enforcement officers. Here the situation is quite different. The dead guy was followed on the streets, where he wouldnt expect to be engaged by armed policemen. Maybe he was aware he was being followed and was spooked by it? If he was what was going through his mind at the time? At what point did the officers identify themselves to him as armed policemen? I say again, I'm not making excuses for terrorists or crticising the police..but as I said in my original post on this thread (before it was established that this guy was an innocent victim), it is important that there is a proper investigation of any shooting of civilians by police officers so we all know that things were dealt with properly.
As to the guy wearing a bulky coat..should it be made illegal for people to wear coats in summer? I heard a Brazilian journalist on the Beeb this morning saying that it's quite normal for Brazilians to wear coats over here in summer because they think it's bloody cold..as simple as that!!
i feel sorry for his family and all but at the end of the day none of us where there and im sure the police had good reason to believe that he was a suspect and they have got to do what they have got to do.
its just shit that this time they were wrong!!! and im sure they were willing to take the what you get for running through a tube station!!- so everybody make sure your not ever late for your trains!!!!
its just shit that this time they were wrong!!! and im sure they were willing to take the what you get for running through a tube station!!- so everybody make sure your not ever late for your trains!!!!
Quote by G and H
BBC News:
A man has been shot at Stockwell Tube station by armed police officers, police confirm.
Passengers were evacuated from a Tube train on the Northern Line station in south London after the incident.
Passenger Mark Whitby told BBC News he had seen an Asian man shot five times by "plain-clothes police officers".
Services on the Victoria and Northern lines have been suspended following a request by the police, London Underground said.
The London Policemen are in an impossible situation, they face a catch 22 problem, whatever they do people will say they are wrong, the officer in question had to make a life threatening split second decision, not one, may I add that anyone else would wish to take, our brave policemen are doing a sterling job and should be congratulated for their courage.
My genuine condolences go out to the victims family and friends, it is a tragedy for an innocent man to lose his life in such circumstances, speaking personally, had I been challenged by the police, I would have allowed them to arrest me and therefore saved my life, however, we all make mistakes, but unfortunately, the one this man made cost him his life.
I doubt if the full story will ever become public either for necessary operational reasons or for cover-up. However, from what has emerged so far it appears that this innocent man had five bullets pumped into his head by a man with a 9mm handgun while two other men pinned him to the floor of a tube train carriage.
Apparently the killers were dressed in t-shirts and jeans.
If I entered a tube station and a bunch of guys in t-shirts and jeans shouted at me that they were police and then ordered me to stop, there is a very strong chance that I might not believe that they were who they claimed to be. I can't honestly say how I would react. It is very likely that I might think that the guys with the guns were bandids or terrorists. In such circumstances I might just leg it. (Note: So far none of the independent witnesses have reported that the killers identified themselves as police. They just heard shouts of "Get out" and "Get down" ).
The Metropolitan Police have given conflicting versions today of why this man was being trailed. In an early morning interview it was stated that he was followed after he emerged from a house that was under surveillance. A later account given by the Met said that he was trailed after he came out of a street where a house that was being observed is located.
I live two streets away from one of the address that was raided by armed police hunting the would-be bombers on Friday. I have been known to drive through the occasional red traffic light (who hasn't ?). I wonder if somebody who was unaware of the anti-terrorists operation around the corner had ignored the red traffic signal at the top of my road on Friday would have come out alive. It seems that some of the contributers to this thread would cite such behaviour as juistification for homicide by the agents of the State. Effectively minor traffic violations become capital offences without due process of the law.
Or what if no offence was committed ? Say a car backfires in the area of a house that's under surveillance. Have the police / secret services / SAS got the right to pump the car and it's occupants full of bullets?
One thing is clear. There has been a total failure of intelligence regarding the killing in Stockwell.
I live fairly close to the site of one of the 7 July bombs. At the moment I am just as afraid of the forces that are supposed to be protecting us than I am of any suicide bomber.
Apparently the killers were dressed in t-shirts and jeans.
If I entered a tube station and a bunch of guys in t-shirts and jeans shouted at me that they were police and then ordered me to stop, there is a very strong chance that I might not believe that they were who they claimed to be. I can't honestly say how I would react. It is very likely that I might think that the guys with the guns were bandids or terrorists. In such circumstances I might just leg it. (Note: So far none of the independent witnesses have reported that the killers identified themselves as police. They just heard shouts of "Get out" and "Get down" ).
The Metropolitan Police have given conflicting versions today of why this man was being trailed. In an early morning interview it was stated that he was followed after he emerged from a house that was under surveillance. A later account given by the Met said that he was trailed after he came out of a street where a house that was being observed is located.
I live two streets away from one of the address that was raided by armed police hunting the would-be bombers on Friday. I have been known to drive through the occasional red traffic light (who hasn't ?). I wonder if somebody who was unaware of the anti-terrorists operation around the corner had ignored the red traffic signal at the top of my road on Friday would have come out alive. It seems that some of the contributers to this thread would cite such behaviour as juistification for homicide by the agents of the State. Effectively minor traffic violations become capital offences without due process of the law.
Or what if no offence was committed ? Say a car backfires in the area of a house that's under surveillance. Have the police / secret services / SAS got the right to pump the car and it's occupants full of bullets?
One thing is clear. There has been a total failure of intelligence regarding the killing in Stockwell.
I live fairly close to the site of one of the 7 July bombs. At the moment I am just as afraid of the forces that are supposed to be protecting us than I am of any suicide bomber.
Just a personal viewpoint now:
Whilst I have the utmost sympathy for both the family of the deceased and the police officers concerned, it has be beyond belief that this poor man, who had lived in London for 3 years, was totally unware of the high state of alert in London the past two weeks. He had to know that the police werebeing highly visible and tensions were running.
I don't undertand why he ran. And straight into a Tube station, the ultimate trigger point for the police officers edgyness.
Yes, he probably was an innocent victim of the terror, but so were the vast majority of those killed by the bombs. As I said previously, probably somewhere else, 'behaviour breeds behaviour.
:cry:
Whilst I have the utmost sympathy for both the family of the deceased and the police officers concerned, it has be beyond belief that this poor man, who had lived in London for 3 years, was totally unware of the high state of alert in London the past two weeks. He had to know that the police werebeing highly visible and tensions were running.
I don't undertand why he ran. And straight into a Tube station, the ultimate trigger point for the police officers edgyness.
Yes, he probably was an innocent victim of the terror, but so were the vast majority of those killed by the bombs. As I said previously, probably somewhere else, 'behaviour breeds behaviour.
:cry:
Quote by Riff Raff
I doubt if the full story will ever become public either for necessary operational reasons or for cover-up. However, from what has emerged so far it appears that this innocent man had five bullets pumped into his head by a man with a 9mm handgun while two other men pinned him to the floor of a tube train carriage.
Apparently the killers were dressed in t-shirts and jeans.
If I entered a tube station and a bunch of guys in t-shirts and jeans shouted at me that they were police and then ordered me to stop, there is a very strong chance that I might not believe that they were who they claimed to be. I can't honestly say how I would react. It is very likely that I might think that the guys with the guns were bandids or terrorists. In such circumstances I might just leg it. (Note: So far none of the independent witnesses have reported that the killers identified themselves as police. They just heard shouts of "Get out" and "Get down" ).
The Metropolitan Police have given conflicting versions today of why this man was being trailed. In an early morning interview it was stated that he was followed after he emerged from a house that was under surveillance. A later account given by the Met said that he was trailed after he came out of a street where a house that was being observed is located.
I live two streets away from one of the address that was raided by armed police hunting the would-be bombers on Friday. I have been known to drive through the occasional red traffic light (who hasn't ?). I wonder if somebody who was unaware of the anti-terrorists operation around the corner had ignored the red traffic signal at the top of my road on Friday would have come out alive. It seems that some of the contributers to this thread would cite such behaviour as juistification for homicide by the agents of the State. Effectively minor traffic violations become capital offences without due process of the law.
Or what if no offence was committed ? Say a car backfires in the area of a house that's under surveillance. Have the police / secret services / SAS got the right to pump the car and it's occupants full of bullets?
One thing is clear. There has been a total failure of intelligence regarding the killing in Stockwell.
I live fairly close to the site of one of the 7 July bombs. At the moment I am just as afraid of the forces that are supposed to be protecting us than I am of any suicide bomber.
Odds on the mafia gunning down somebody in the middle of the London Underground at the height of increased security?
Exactly.
I'm usually not tempted to call somebody an outright idiot, but whoever doesn't support the "killers" on this matter are very very naive to say the least.
It is people like you and these comments that will put an element of doubt in the people we trust to safeguard our lives in these times.
I'll say it again, if you were on that train and a man dives on followed by undercover police waving guns, theres 3 things u'd assume;
A) They ARE the Police, because no one is audacious enough to make such a public hit since the days of Al Capone
B) The guy being pursued was being reasonably suspicious, simply by running.
and C) You'd love him to be shot and be neutralised quickly to safeguard your own life.
You would be congratulating the Police if you were on the train, so stop being anti-Police, anti-Blair, Pro-Greenpeace or whatever daft notion you're trying to latch onto - the simple matter is the RIGHT thing was done!
At the end of the day, it looks like the cop in question truly believed that there was a risk to the general public.
I am sure there are going to be plenty of things written about what was said, what was not said, what witnesses heard, what they were dressed like (the cops and the victim) etc etc etc.
BUT, and I really do believe this, the Cops that were chasing this man must have TRULY BELIEVED that there was a risk to the general public - and actually when you think about it, the cops are putting their own life in danger - chasing a man who could also kill them - and he is doing this because he is trying to protect us all.
HE IS RISKING HIS LIFE TO PROTECT EVERY OTHER INNOCENT PERSON AROUND HIM !!!!
Now a few points on this:
1. It takes a special, brave person to put their life on the line for others. Our armed forces (and also now our home security forces) do this every day when on the job.
2. Do you really think if the copper had an INLKING of doubt that this man was not a SERIOUS threat (based on any information he had been given in his earpiece) that he would still have shot the guy - knowing full well the full weight of the "bleeding heart liberals" would come down squarely on his shoulders - He would have to be a pathological idiot to shoot someone who he thought was innocent.
3. The guy ran !! Pure and simple, he has been in this country for 3 years, and i assume also for the last few weeks, so knew exactly how "tense" it all is in the capital at the moment. - EVEN if as some people have said, they guy thought he was running from 3 (or more) whilte men intent on giving him a kicking for being a muslim, I am sure that security etc would have been on the scene faster that you could say BOO. He should have dropped to the ground and spread his arms !!
I am sorry that this has gone on for so long, and I promise to finish once I have made two more points
1. The guy should NEVER be charged with anything, in fact he should probably be given an award or something. Also, he should receive all the councelling etc he needs to make sure this unfortunate event does not ruin the rest of his life.
2a. The bleeding heart liberals that seem to be *unfortunately* running this country should f**k off, if you use the tube on a regular basis (I don't anymore, but have done up until 2 years ago) - I have a lot of friends in and around london that still do, and it scares the sh*t out of me on a daily basis !!
2b. Still on the bleeding heart liberals, sorry, including the one I have read on this thread, WE ARE IN A WAR, America has been since Sept 11, and this atrocious attack was before afghanistan and iraq was invaded.
I have so much more to say now, but am not going to because I could go on forever. There is so much tangled up in this, but above all else, and my last statement is
THE COP THOUGHT THERE WAS A RISK TO PEOPLES LIVES - AND DEALT WITH IT - END OF
I am sure there are going to be plenty of things written about what was said, what was not said, what witnesses heard, what they were dressed like (the cops and the victim) etc etc etc.
BUT, and I really do believe this, the Cops that were chasing this man must have TRULY BELIEVED that there was a risk to the general public - and actually when you think about it, the cops are putting their own life in danger - chasing a man who could also kill them - and he is doing this because he is trying to protect us all.
HE IS RISKING HIS LIFE TO PROTECT EVERY OTHER INNOCENT PERSON AROUND HIM !!!!
Now a few points on this:
1. It takes a special, brave person to put their life on the line for others. Our armed forces (and also now our home security forces) do this every day when on the job.
2. Do you really think if the copper had an INLKING of doubt that this man was not a SERIOUS threat (based on any information he had been given in his earpiece) that he would still have shot the guy - knowing full well the full weight of the "bleeding heart liberals" would come down squarely on his shoulders - He would have to be a pathological idiot to shoot someone who he thought was innocent.
3. The guy ran !! Pure and simple, he has been in this country for 3 years, and i assume also for the last few weeks, so knew exactly how "tense" it all is in the capital at the moment. - EVEN if as some people have said, they guy thought he was running from 3 (or more) whilte men intent on giving him a kicking for being a muslim, I am sure that security etc would have been on the scene faster that you could say BOO. He should have dropped to the ground and spread his arms !!
I am sorry that this has gone on for so long, and I promise to finish once I have made two more points
1. The guy should NEVER be charged with anything, in fact he should probably be given an award or something. Also, he should receive all the councelling etc he needs to make sure this unfortunate event does not ruin the rest of his life.
2a. The bleeding heart liberals that seem to be *unfortunately* running this country should f**k off, if you use the tube on a regular basis (I don't anymore, but have done up until 2 years ago) - I have a lot of friends in and around london that still do, and it scares the sh*t out of me on a daily basis !!
2b. Still on the bleeding heart liberals, sorry, including the one I have read on this thread, WE ARE IN A WAR, America has been since Sept 11, and this atrocious attack was before afghanistan and iraq was invaded.
I have so much more to say now, but am not going to because I could go on forever. There is so much tangled up in this, but above all else, and my last statement is
THE COP THOUGHT THERE WAS A RISK TO PEOPLES LIVES - AND DEALT WITH IT - END OF
Quote by welshBIcouple
At the end of the day, it looks like the cop in question truly believed that there was a risk to the general public.
I am sure there are going to be plenty of things written about what was said, what was not said, what witnesses heard, what they were dressed like (the cops and the victim) etc etc etc.
BUT, and I really do believe this, the Cops that were chasing this man must have TRULY BELIEVED that there was a risk to the general public - and actually when you think about it, the cops are putting their own life in danger - chasing a man who could also kill them - and he is doing this because he is trying to protect us all.
HE IS RISKING HIS LIFE TO PROTECT EVERY OTHER INNOCENT PERSON AROUND HIM !!!!
Now a few points on this:
1. It takes a special, brave person to put their life on the line for others. Our armed forces (and also now our home security forces) do this every day when on the job.
2. Do you really think if the copper had an INLKING of doubt that this man was not a SERIOUS threat (based on any information he had been given in his earpiece) that he would still have shot the guy - knowing full well the full weight of the "bleeding heart liberals" would come down squarely on his shoulders - He would have to be a pathological idiot to shoot someone who he thought was innocent.
3. The guy ran !! Pure and simple, he has been in this country for 3 years, and i assume also for the last few weeks, so knew exactly how "tense" it all is in the capital at the moment. - EVEN if as some people have said, they guy thought he was running from 3 (or more) whilte men intent on giving him a kicking for being a muslim, I am sure that security etc would have been on the scene faster that you could say BOO. He should have dropped to the ground and spread his arms !!
I am sorry that this has gone on for so long, and I promise to finish once I have made two more points
1. The guy should NEVER be charged with anything, in fact he should probably be given an award or something. Also, he should receive all the councelling etc he needs to make sure this unfortunate event does not ruin the rest of his life.
2a. The bleeding heart liberals that seem to be *unfortunately* running this country should f**k off, if you use the tube on a regular basis (I don't anymore, but have done up until 2 years ago) - I have a lot of friends in and around london that still do, and it scares the sh*t out of me on a daily basis !!
2b. Still on the bleeding heart liberals, sorry, including the one I have read on this thread, WE ARE IN A WAR, America has been since Sept 11, and this atrocious attack was before afghanistan and iraq was invaded.
I have so much more to say now, but am not going to because I could go on forever. There is so much tangled up in this, but above all else, and my last statement is
THE COP THOUGHT THERE WAS A RISK TO PEOPLES LIVES - AND DEALT WITH IT - END OF
..what is a 'bleeding heart liberal'? Presumably you're talking about the people who campaigned to stop children being shoved up chimneys, got women the vote, improved wages and working conditions for the vast majority of British people, created the welfare state, comprehensive education and health services for everybody...
..before you accuse me of being a bleeding heart liberal..I work in law enforcement myself and have a very tough stance about criminality and punishment. I have also seen how the power given to people in authority can be quite intoxicating, so you continually have to be checking your actions.
Personally I don't think the officer involved will be too concerned about the outcome of any inquiry (I'm not talking about a criminal one neccesarily), as it will probably be proved he acted in good faith..but that shouldn't mean that a transparent inquiry is not carried out because: 'he had a tough call to make', 'we are at war', 'people should know that these are difficult times', 'if you're innocent and run, you should expect a bullet in the head'! In fact any debrief will take account of all these factors before any action is taken.
At times like this high standards should apply, because once folks (of whatever race, religion, background) lose faith in the criminal justice system, they start to take the law into their own hands..usually with terrible consequences..we can see it happening the world over.
What I don't want to see is a situation such as in the Caribbean where the first response is to 'shoot first'..ask questions later, with apparently little responsibility for explaining actions later. This has led to a proliferation of gun toting criminals, who carry guns because they believe 'untouchable' policemen are legitimate targets.
It's a sad place we live in when a police officer, even one acting with the best intentions, can shoot someone and it's something that people think can just be swept under the carpet, without there being a proper investigation as to what actually happened.
The bleeding heart liberals that seem to be *unfortunately* running this country should f**k off
This kind of comments, and others beforehand, are considered abusive and won't be tolerated. If you can't debate and discuss in a reasoned manner then please don't add to this thread anymore.
We all have opinions, and they differ. Name calling and offensive remarks aren't part of those opinions.
I've already had one complaint about the tone of this thread and will not hesitate to lock it if the intolerant and offensive vein continues.
Debate nicely folks.
Jags,
I would like to unreservedly apologise for my outburst.
I think you will agree it is a very emotional subject. But I am thoroughly sorry
for that sentence - and for resorting to profanities.
However, I still feel that the guy was doing what he thought right at the time, and my best wishes go out to him, his family, and the family of the poor guy who was shot.....
Also,
ops: Sorry to everyone else that was upset by what was written by my two index fingers (not a fast typist - and that whole "tyrade" took quite a while believe me)
However, I do believe some of the things I wrote, and when I use the term "bleeding heart liberals" I DO NOT mean the ones who stopped kids up chimneys, or started the welfare state etc etc. But more the PC brigade who seem to be headed up by Cherie Blaire and her ilk (Expect some lawsuit soon)
Once again sorry :oops: , and will stop there
SORRY !!!!!!
I would like to unreservedly apologise for my outburst.
I think you will agree it is a very emotional subject. But I am thoroughly sorry
for that sentence - and for resorting to profanities.However, I still feel that the guy was doing what he thought right at the time, and my best wishes go out to him, his family, and the family of the poor guy who was shot.....
Also,
ops: Sorry to everyone else that was upset by what was written by my two index fingers (not a fast typist - and that whole "tyrade" took quite a while believe me)However, I do believe some of the things I wrote, and when I use the term "bleeding heart liberals" I DO NOT mean the ones who stopped kids up chimneys, or started the welfare state etc etc. But more the PC brigade who seem to be headed up by Cherie Blaire and her ilk (Expect some lawsuit soon)
Once again sorry :oops: , and will stop there
SORRY !!!!!!
We should not assume that the man who was shot was innocent, just because he was not carrying a bomb. There are many other things that he could have been guilty of that would make him run from police.
We should not assume that just because he ran, he was guilty of something, or stupid. There are many reasons why he could have run, it may have been his environment when he grew up that made him assume that a police officer with a gun would shoot first and ask questions later. His running may have been a conditioned response in him, triggered by the tension of the hightened security state.
On the other hand, he may just have been deaf and late for an appointment.
As for the police officer. In this country, one of the ways we express our freedom is through lack of indeminity that police officers/service personnel/other armed security personnel have in these circumstances. The incident will be investigated and if the officers informed are found criminally culpable, they will be charged. That is the price we expect our security forces to pay when they take up a gun as part of their duties.
All those involved, those connected to the victim, and those connected to the police officers involved will now have to face the consequences, legal, emotional, professional, political of these events.
There is only one thing that is I am sure is 100% wrong - that is making a moral decision about the shooting based on the sketchy evidence that is available.
lhk
Kat
We should not assume that just because he ran, he was guilty of something, or stupid. There are many reasons why he could have run, it may have been his environment when he grew up that made him assume that a police officer with a gun would shoot first and ask questions later. His running may have been a conditioned response in him, triggered by the tension of the hightened security state.
On the other hand, he may just have been deaf and late for an appointment.
As for the police officer. In this country, one of the ways we express our freedom is through lack of indeminity that police officers/service personnel/other armed security personnel have in these circumstances. The incident will be investigated and if the officers informed are found criminally culpable, they will be charged. That is the price we expect our security forces to pay when they take up a gun as part of their duties.
All those involved, those connected to the victim, and those connected to the police officers involved will now have to face the consequences, legal, emotional, professional, political of these events.
There is only one thing that is I am sure is 100% wrong - that is making a moral decision about the shooting based on the sketchy evidence that is available.
lhk
Kat
Quote by KitKat
We should not assume that the man who was shot was innocent, just because he was not carrying a bomb. There are many other things that he could have been guilty of that would make him run from police.
We should not assume that just because he ran, he was guilty of something, or stupid. There are many reasons why he could have run, it may have been his environment when he grew up that made him assume that a police officer with a gun would shoot first and ask questions later. His running may have been a conditioned response in him, triggered by the tension of the hightened security state.
On the other hand, he may just have been deaf and late for an appointment.
As for the police officer. In this country, one of the ways we express our freedom is through lack of indeminity that police officers/service personnel/other armed security personnel have in these circumstances. The incident will be investigated and if the officers informed are found criminally culpable, they will be charged. That is the price we expect our security forces to pay when they take up a gun as part of their duties.
All those involved, those connected to the victim, and those connected to the police officers involved will now have to face the consequences, legal, emotional, professional, political of these events.
There is only one thing that is I am sure is 100% wrong - that is making a moral decision about the shooting based on the sketchy evidence that is available.
lhk
Kat
...couldn't agree more
Sex God
oh boy... where to start... there are so many thing in here that i so flat out disagree with that i am actual really mad, but i will try to keep it objective and not personally attack anyone
oh right... that would be a "very british" thing now wouldn't it...... and please don't presume to be the voice of every person on that train, especially if in this case it looks as if A) the surveylance was sadly shocking and B) the police in this case have changed the story they were putting out to the general public.... or do you condone the misinformation that has been put out as well..... is that "very british" as well???
we are dealing with it..... and like we said the policeman is the final link in the chain, but in this case the police got in wrong so we are dealing with it.....
sean xxxxxxx
Quote by 3someinpreston
Odds on the mafia gunning down somebody in the middle of the London Underground at the height of increased security?
Exactly.
I'm usually not tempted to call somebody an outright idiot, but whoever doesn't support the "killers" on this matter are very very naive to say the least.
While i do agree with you that calling the policeman "killers" I don't agree with you on the rest of your postition... however i will refrain from calling you an idiot
It is people like you and these comments that will put an element of doubt in the people we trust to safeguard our lives in these times.
I trust the police up to a point.. but when you have been "stopped" and "search" you do find it begins to wain...
I'll say it again, if you were on that train and a man dives on followed by undercover police waving guns, theres 3 things u'd assume;
A) They ARE the Police, because no one is audacious enough to make such a public hit since the days of Al Capone
and just why would you assume that????? all the people on the train have heard are the words "get down" followed by 3 plain clothed people over a person and shooting him at point blank range 5 times...
B) The guy being pursued was being reasonably suspicious, simply by running.
being suspicious in what way?? wearing a large woolen thing in the middle of summer.. in which case i am guilty... if i had 3 people in normal clothes running after me with guns i may have been tempted to run damn fast as well..... all that people outside would have seen was that he was being chased by plain clothed officers.....hey, you should live in the parts of east and south east london i have lived in.....
and C) You'd love him to be shot and be neutralised quickly to safeguard your own life.
that is too right... a few bullets to the head will do that
You would be congratulating the Police if you were on the train, so stop being anti-Police, anti-Blair, Pro-Greenpeace or whatever daft notion you're trying to latch onto - the simple matter is the RIGHT thing was done!
oh right... that would be a "very british" thing now wouldn't it...... and please don't presume to be the voice of every person on that train, especially if in this case it looks as if A) the surveylance was sadly shocking and B) the police in this case have changed the story they were putting out to the general public.... or do you condone the misinformation that has been put out as well..... is that "very british" as well???
Quote by welshBIcouple
Now a few points on this:
1. It takes a special, brave person to put their life on the line for others. Our armed forces (and also now our home security forces) do this every day when on the job.
absolutly agree with you.......
2. Do you really think if the copper had an INLKING of doubt that this man was not a SERIOUS threat (based on any information he had been given in his earpiece) that he would still have shot the guy - knowing full well the full weight of the "bleeding heart liberals" would come down squarely on his shoulders - He would have to be a pathological idiot to shoot someone who he thought was innocent.
i would agree with you up to a point.... I don't think us "bleedin heart liberals" would go after the policeman involved.. he was just doing his job.. however again i would ask questions of the surveylance involved, if anyone does end up getting charged over this then it needs to be someone a lot higher up the chain of command than the poor policeman....he would only be going on what is being told thru his earpiece
3. The guy ran !! Pure and simple, he has been in this country for 3 years, and i assume also for the last few weeks, so knew exactly how "tense" it all is in the capital at the moment. - EVEN if as some people have said, they guy thought he was running from 3 (or more) whilte men intent on giving him a kicking for being a muslim, I am sure that security etc would have been on the scene faster that you could say BOO. He should have dropped to the ground and spread his arms !!
funny enough i spoke to a friend from brazil about this... just to see what the feeling was like out there... and the conversation got round to talking about the police out there and in sao paulo in particular, after hearing about it i said to him "wow after hearing all that would be tempted to run" to which he said "i probably would have as well" ... maybe that says more how good british police are, or how mistrusted the sao paulo force is....
I am sorry that this has gone on for so long, and I promise to finish once I have made two more points
1. The guy should NEVER be charged with anything, in fact he should probably be given an award or something. Also, he should receive all the councelling etc he needs to make sure this unfortunate event does not ruin the rest of his life.
like i said above... the policeman shouldn't be charge, but i think people up the chain should be...we agree about the councilling and i hope it doesn't ruin his life... as for getting an award, please think about what you just said! what part of "here is an award for shooting an innocent person dead" do you not find extremely distastful....
2a. The bleeding heart liberals that seem to be *unfortunately* running this country should f**k off, if you use the tube on a regular basis (I don't anymore, but have done up until 2 years ago) - I have a lot of friends in and around london that still do, and it scares the sh*t out of me on a daily basis !!
I live in london for 7 years and use to take the underground everyday, i know a lot of people who don't use the underground anymore and to be honest i am surprised this type of attack didn't come sooner....thank you for tell us "bleeding heart liberals" to F*** off, i find it an arrogent viewpoint to take.....
2b. Still on the bleeding heart liberals, sorry, including the one I have read on this thread, WE ARE IN A WAR, America has been since Sept 11, and this atrocious attack was before afghanistan and iraq was invaded.
Hold on....so because bush says we are in a war, we are in a war...and before put it down as an anti american rant... i have dual nationality!!!
I lost friends on 9/11.. i miss them like mad!.... i almost lost a few collegues on 7/7 and i glad i have come out of the other side of that.... but please don't call it a war, it is a few extremists who don't represent a country and have a misguided view of their faith....
I have so much more to say now, but am not going to because I could go on forever. There is so much tangled up in this, but above all else, and my last statement is
THE COP THOUGHT THERE WAS A RISK TO PEOPLES LIVES - AND DEALT WITH IT - END OF
we are dealing with it..... and like we said the policeman is the final link in the chain, but in this case the police got in wrong so we are dealing with it.....
sean xxxxxxx
Sex God
i'm entirely neutral about the killing at Stockwell - we've got to wait and hear what the authorities can establish about what actually happened in the event and the build-up to it.
If some of those now grieving for their relatives murdered in the explosions can plead for people to stop and think and try to understand, ( )
and not react only with hatred and bitterness, why can't the rest of us do the same? Yes of course we want justice for all those suffering form these terrible events, but there is more to this than primitive tabloid headlines. I think we need a bit less certainty and a bit more patience and understanding.
Mike. (Expecting sneers and jeers, but I want to say this anyway.)
If some of those now grieving for their relatives murdered in the explosions can plead for people to stop and think and try to understand, ( )
and not react only with hatred and bitterness, why can't the rest of us do the same? Yes of course we want justice for all those suffering form these terrible events, but there is more to this than primitive tabloid headlines. I think we need a bit less certainty and a bit more patience and understanding.
Mike. (Expecting sneers and jeers, but I want to say this anyway.)
Quote by welshBIcouple
However, I do believe some of the things I wrote, and when I use the term "bleeding heart liberals" I DO NOT mean the ones who stopped kids up chimneys, or started the welfare state etc etc. But more the PC brigade who seem to be headed up by Cherie Blaire and her ilk (Expect some lawsuit soon)
Once again sorry
SORRY !!!!!!
..no worries Welshcouple...Wales is probably the safest place to be right now!
