So many strong opinions of a highly emotive subject. For the time being I'll refrain from expressing any thoughts as I don't know enough.....far too much speculation for my liking!
I'll try to remain ever the optimist.
It's clearly a tragedy that the guy they shot at Stockwell was an innocent ... not involved with the bombings ... but you have to wonder why the guy was running in the first place and right into a tube station at that!
He may have been fearful that the people chasing him were 'muslim bashers' but I would have thought they will have identified themselves as police in the course of the chase ... and leaping the gates and jumping onto a tube in the present state of heightened alert - just 1 day after the previous attempted bombings was a little bit obtuse?
Couple of other points to counter some viewpoints:
The gentleman was very aware of the situation in London. He was even considering buying a motorcycle to avoid using the tube (see the BBC news sites). Not the actions of someone who does not understand the risks of the tube. This puts it back into the realms of Heathrow in my mind. I would be damn careful, and poeple with guns going after 'me' are likely to be Police. After all I would expect it, terrorists would be shooting everyone.
Back to heathrow, bet all the security is not visible. After all it makes them easier to avoid. I have been stopped in Kingston highstreet by plain clothed officers, you dont argue. I have also walked into an armed officer in my front garden, I was challenged but not shot, I did what I was told. (BTW that was someone in the next estate that threatened his family while drunk, my house just had a good view of his)
The story changing is no surprise, even the witnesses who were interviewed could not decide on the number of bullets. Some said a couple of shots, some 4, some 5, some a 'few' bangs. It is no shock that the story changes as more information is brought in an collated?
I understand that there are reasons the poor man may have run. I do not think at the end of the day that his motivations mattered. The viewpoint of the Police is what matters, from their point of view this man ran into a train of innocent people after being challenged. It could not look worse from their perspective.
I still feel that there is not a shoot to kill policy, it is still a shoot to stop. The fact that they must shoot a sucide bomber in the head will mean he dies 99% of the time. However their job is to stop him setting off a bomb, and not set it off themselves.
As many have said before, the number of bullets (although only the Police will know the number fired) are understandable when drowned in adrenalin, in real fear for your own life.
Just some more points to discuss, and although I disagree with some of what seagul has to say. I do agree that this is a job for the politicians to solve. We are getting somewhere in Northern Ireland not because we blew anything up, but because everyone started talking. There is nothing more scary than an enemy you think you can't talk to. In the end everyone will comprimise, it will not end terrorism, there is always another excuse to kill, but it will be a start in the right direction.
People respond very differently to all sorts of things.
Typical Brits would respond to the behaviour of uniformed police.
But what would you do if you saw a few guys dressed in strange robes and carrying weird silly looking swords coming towards you? Probably think it was a carnival? Different perceptions.
I think the guy was acting fairly instinctively. He may well have witnessed several incidents in Brazil and weighed up the odds, thinking his best chances were to run away from the situation.
We wouldn't think like that because we are not used to it.
The agents who gunned him down were just to gung ho for this type of work.
Sexysteph, the only option open to them. To me a shoot to kill is opening fire first, having no intention of arresting a suspect. If this man had not resisted arrest, not run for it, he would not be shot. If there was a shoot to kill then they would have shot him in the street.
Also I do not think the police were 'gung ho'. They chased a suspect who they thought was on the verge of blowing them limb from limb. Gung ho, not in my opinion, shit scared, most likely. Unless you are in the emergency services it is very hard to know how hard the job can be.
if there is a shoot to kill policy I for one support it. If the police have reason to belive you are going to kill any number of innocent people catching a bus or riding the tube....Then i for one am glad the police are willing to protect us.
Each day they put there lives at risk for us..its time we start supporting them.
I respect that Roger, I don't like the idea either, but they are the last line of defence.
Fabio my friend I really don't think race plays a part in this. That is what the terrorists want us to think, not what we should think. It is a shame that you are being affected by this so badly, I do understand your concerns. It is a worry that people will see this as a race issue, rest assured though, many others will not. Me included.
The killers on 7/7 were not acting on behalf of the Muslim community (which has condemmed their actions), and just the same they are not acting for you, or anyone else because of their skin colour. I hope you feel safer again soon my friend, these are worrying times for us all.
In a perverse way the fact that this man was not asian or black, and had no backpack highlights that the Police only have interest in terrorists. They are not looking for a certain colour, or backpacks.
Think my point was that he was not someone who did not know London as some have suggested. He was not a confused tourist, he was a Londoner with 3 years under his belt. I know it does not explain why he ran, or why he ran to the worst place he could have gone. Really just bringing a new fact to the discussion that I noticed in the news and did not seem to have been mentioned. As to what it means I leave that to the debate.
Without getting into a blame game, I'd just like to point out that when someone is scared, their reaction is likely to boil down to two responses; flight or freeze. I tend to freeze when I'm scared, that's just me. This guy simply didn't.
The reality is he wasn't likely to rationalise the situation or his response, he most likely acted upon instinct, so let's lay off criticising the poor dead guy shall we?
Venusxxx
This is not about the colour of your skin....its about a warped version of a religion, that being Muslim,i don't think colour should come into it,i'm sure there are white muslims as well!
They shot the wrong man .................. an innocent man !!!!
If he was standing still, or running away, or juggling dildo's whilst whistling Rule Brittania ....................... they shot and killed the wrong man !!
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I didnt say I dont support the actions of the forces trying to protect us ! They do an incredibly difficult and nasty job !
I do know he was here past the date on his visa !
But HE WAS INNOCENT and on the floor when he was SHOT IN THE HEAD 5 TIMES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Moderators hat on now.
This has been quite an open debate about the rights and wrongs of the shooting. We have allowed it to run so that many can air their feelings over it. However, I must warn you that should any posts become abusive, racist or offensive, the person concerned could well find themselves an ex member. Keep posting, by all means , but please guys - think before you hit the submit key - is it likely to offend? Do I really want to risk my membership for the sake of getting one over on someone?
Mal
Different interpretations of the same fact, Ice. However, A member has complained about that very fact and I have acted accordingly.
Mal
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