What a great parent.......not

23 Oct 2008

Quote by soul_girl
Surely as its not allowed by law to sell cigs to under 16's and alcohol to under 18's then the mother is breaking the law by supplying someone under these ages with the items. Surely she should be charged by the police.

Maybe the age of consent should be lowered dunno

Haven't we got one of the higest rates of underage pregnancy in Europe and yet the highest age of consent :dunno:

23 Oct 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
I would be very interested to know what you think are the positives here?
Yes she is positive by allowing her Daughter to go on the pill at 12...superb that one. The police should have been called in. She is a child, a minor who should be doing things that kids do at 12. That is not drinking taking smokes of all sorts, and certainly NOT having .
Worst of all is doing this with her Mothers consent....very nice.

Okaaay, here I go.
The 'Positive' is that the girl, at the age of 12 will not get pregnant.
Kids from the age of (normally @ 14 at the minute) are going to have sex whether or not you or any other parent forbids them to do so. It's life.
So what would you rather do? teach safe sex, educate of the protection of STI's? or turn a blind eye to them having sex... because it's wrong?
I'm NOT advocating that it right for a child under the age of 16 yrs old to be having sex, but teenage pregnancy statistics show that these girls would be better off with some kind of help and advice, would you not agree??
I was gutted when I found out my daughter had had sex at the age of 15 years old. I'd found out she'd been for STI screening also. Furious? yes, I threw her pills in the bin. After I calmed down I realised though that as she had been with her boyfriend for over a year she had indeed been sensible about her of her approach to having sex for the first time.
I think for the record the mother from this thread is nuts, and I do think at 12 the child is too young to be having sex, but she's even more 'too young to be a mum'.
Sorry Mar but where did you get that piece of information from? :shock:
Mrs777's Daughter is that age well 15, and none of her mates have, and she has loads of friends.
Tell you what parents could do if they found out their Daughter was having UNDERAGE ILLEGAL sex, take them to school...pick them up from school...and then ground them. Or is that too difficult for some to do? Too much hassle?
Sorry Mar in my book when a child, yes a child, has sex at the age of 12, then Social Services should be brought in. Where the heck is societies morals now? We are not talking about a 15 year old, we are talking about a child that has just left primary school.
Not nit picking Mar, its just the way I see it. There is a does a child have rights thread going, what about the parents protecting those childrens rights, when they find out that child has had sex at 12? Or has that child now got the right to have underage illegal sex?
There are ways of stopping your child from doing this, but it takes time and patience, and a lot of hard work, things that some parents would not know the meaning of.
Sorry 777 how would know that information for sure?
I was 15 my parents never knew god help me if they found out to.
The school I went to in the the late 70's I would say a quarter of the class had sex before 16. There was a room at school pregnant mothers could go.
Going back I have family members that were pregnant at 16 the difference then it was all shot gun weddings babies before marriage was a disgrace to the family name.
The problems of under age sex or woman falling pregnant out of wedlock have always been a problem since man and women first walked this earth.
Nothings changed it is just more transparent now

23 Oct 2008

I've given condoms to a 12 yr old... and they don't get them that easy either at that age!!
Why did I do it? Because this 12 yr old was having risky sex and perhaps would have ended up with either an STi or pregnant. I stand by the decision I made at that time - it was the right one.
Yet, I would never give a young person a ciggie or a light! Contradictory? Yep!

23 Oct 2008

I give up. cool

23 Oct 2008

Quote by anais
I've given condoms to a 12 yr old... and they don't get them that easy either at that age!!
Why did I do it? Because this 12 yr old was having risky sex and perhaps would have ended up with either an STi or pregnant. I stand by the decision I made at that time - it was the right one.
Yes, I would never give a young person a ciggie or a light! Contradictory? Yep!

In my opinion there is no link between the two!
One is for the protection of the child.
I don't condone a child under 16 having sex but I would rather see they are getting the right protection.

23 Oct 2008

Quote by anais
I've given condoms to a 12 yr old... and they don't get them that easy either at that age!!
Why did I do it? Because this 12 yr old was having risky sex and perhaps would have ended up with either an STi or pregnant. I stand by the decision I made at that time - it was the right one.
Yet, I would never give a young person a ciggie or a light! Contradictory? Yep!

contradictory..no i say
I say in giving them condoms you may well have stoped them ruining there life at an early age.
I say by not giving them cigs..you attempted to stop them getting chronic health problems.
in both cases I would agree with your decision and think what you did was for the best intentions.

23 Oct 2008

I had my son when i was 15 and i wouldnt change him but i do wish id had someone older and more responsible i could confide in about protection and such things. So i do think there is some responsibility in this parent Kids will always smoke/drink/have sex before they are old enough thats life confused

23 Oct 2008

Quote by Dawnie
Surely as its not allowed by law to sell cigs to under 16's and alcohol to under 18's then the mother is breaking the law by supplying someone under these ages with the items. Surely she should be charged by the police.

Maybe the age of consent should be lowered dunno

Haven't we got one of the higest rates of underage pregnancy in Europe and yet the highest age of consent:dunno:
and the worst record as parents? :dunno:

23 Oct 2008

I think the high teenage pregnancy rate is as much to do with the binge drinking culture as it is to any claim of a lack of knowledge or limited access to protection. You can 'educate' them til your blue in the face but kids who are rat arsed on cheap lager at parties and in the corners of public parks are far more likely to risk a quickie without protection as their judgement is impaired.

23 Oct 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
I would be very interested to know what you think are the positives here?
Yes she is positive by allowing her Daughter to go on the pill at 12...superb that one. The police should have been called in. She is a child, a minor who should be doing things that kids do at 12. That is not drinking taking smokes of all sorts, and certainly NOT having .
Worst of all is doing this with her Mothers consent....very nice.

Okaaay, here I go.
The 'Positive' is that the girl, at the age of 12 will not get pregnant.
Kids from the age of (normally @ 14 at the minute) are going to have sex whether or not you or any other parent forbids them to do so. It's life.
So what would you rather do? teach safe sex, educate of the protection of STI's? or turn a blind eye to them having sex... because it's wrong?
I'm NOT advocating that it right for a child under the age of 16 yrs old to be having sex, but teenage pregnancy statistics show that these girls would be better off with some kind of help and advice, would you not agree??
I was gutted when I found out my daughter had had sex at the age of 15 years old. I'd found out she'd been for STI screening also. Furious? yes, I threw her pills in the bin. After I calmed down I realised though that as she had been with her boyfriend for over a year she had indeed been sensible about her of her approach to having sex for the first time.
I think for the record the mother from this thread is nuts, and I do think at 12 the child is too young to be having sex, but she's even more 'too young to be a mum'.
Sorry Mar but where did you get that piece of information from? :shock:
Mrs777's Daughter is that age well 15, and none of her mates have, and she has loads of friends.
Tell you what parents could do if they found out their Daughter was having UNDERAGE ILLEGAL sex, take them to school...pick them up from school...and then ground them. Or is that too difficult for some to do? Too much hassle?
Sorry Mar in my book when a child, yes a child, has sex at the age of 12, then Social Services should be brought in. Where the heck is societies morals now? We are not talking about a 15 year old, we are talking about a child that has just left primary school.
Not nit picking Mar, its just the way I see it. There is a does a child have rights thread going, what about the parents protecting those childrens rights, when they find out that child has had sex at 12? Or has that child now got the right to have underage illegal sex?
There are ways of stopping your child from doing this, but it takes time and patience, and a lot of hard work, things that some parents would not know the meaning of.
Um, from where I work.
Kent, you are a wise man - please don't be naive on this one, check out "Fraser Guidelines" following the Gillick case in court in 1985. These are strict guidelines that we have to adhere to when supporting young children.
Try this link

I cannot believe you honestly think that young people under the age of 16 aren't having sex!... and if you re read my post, I didn't agree with the 12 year old having sex, yes it is illegal and I certainly didn't say I agree with her being on the pill. What I did say was having a child at the age of 12 would be more detrimental on her health than the pill - at this stage.
The Government totally backs up the education of sexual health in young people. We also advise the youngsters on "Delay" and "R U Ready".
Believe me, Child Protection is of paramount importance and, no, Social Services are not contacted everytime a 14/15 year old walks through the doors.
Oh and if your last bit was true, and there are ways of stopping a child under 16 having sex, we would be out of a job! smile

23 Oct 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
Mrs777's Daughter is that age well 15, and none of her mates have, and she has loads of friends.
Tell you what parents could do if they found out their Daughter was having UNDERAGE ILLEGAL sex, take them to school...pick them up from school...and then ground them. Or is that too difficult for some to do? Too much hassle?

Nope my parents did exactly that when they discovered that I'd been having regular sex at the age of 14, the lad in question was a long term family friend (I'd known him from nursery school).
My parents found out because it was discovered that I was 4 months pregnant!
My parents are/were extremely strict, decent people. They did supervise me afterwards however I climbed out of bedrooms windows and escaped over the bay roof and onto the car roof (getting back wasn't as easy).
If a kid is determined enough, as I was, they will find a way, regardless of adult intervention. My parents had avoided sex education with me believing I was too young and innocent!
My 11 year old is currently having sex education at school, 3 years younger than I remember having sex education. We're open with our kids and although we don't flaunt sex or sexuality with them, we try to teach them that it's normal behaviour, but that a sexual relationship takes maturity and when it comes to the relevant time will cover protection and contraception.
I won't agree that having sex from 14 or 15 is acceptable however, if my daughter has to discover it I want her to be able to make an informed decision and protect herself.
I'd much rather find a packet of condoms in her room or contraceptive pills than a pregnancy test!!

23 Oct 2008

On tonight's news....

Education is the key, but even I think 5 yrs old is a bit young and a bit extreme, they're only just learning how to fasten their shoe laces bless them :shock:

23 Oct 2008

Just heard on the news they are introducing/or thinking of introducing sex ed to 5 year old + over in a bid to prevent teenage pregnancies
Mixed feelings on this confused

23 Oct 2008

11 yes ... 5 no way!!!

23 Oct 2008

Quote by jaymar
Education is the key, but even I think 5 yrs old is a bit young and a bit extreme, they're only just learning how to fasten their shoe laces bless them :shock:

part of me says its a good idea the education can only help but i too think 5 is a tad young!

23 Oct 2008

Yes but when you look into it, it isn't just sex education - it's stuff about lifeskills, relationships, puberty, how to relate to each other etc.
Not all willies and boobs! wink

23 Oct 2008

Quote by noladreams30
Yes but when you look into it, it isn't just sex education - it's stuff about lifeskills, relationships, puberty, how to relate to each other etc.
Not all willies and boobs!

S.E.A.L.

I like SEAL

23 Oct 2008

Quote by jaymar
Yes but when you look into it, it isn't just sex education - it's stuff about lifeskills, relationships, puberty, how to relate to each other etc.
Not all willies and boobs!

S.E.A.L.

I like SEAL
and from a purely selfish perspective, the more they know before they get to me, the better :thumbup:
:giggle:

23 Oct 2008

Quote by jaymar
Yes but when you look into it, it isn't just sex education - it's stuff about lifeskills, relationships, puberty, how to relate to each other etc.
Not all willies and boobs!

S.E.A.L.

I like SEAL
:lol: SEAL is fantastic!

23 Oct 2008

Quote by TanKinky

Education is the key, but even I think 5 yrs old is a bit young and a bit extreme, they're only just learning how to fasten their shoe laces bless them :shock:

part of me says its a good idea the education can only help but i too think 5 is a tad young!
We have five-year olds who ask questions because their mummy has moved her girlfriend in and their daddy out! Or, they have older siblings who are gay and they ask us about it because people at home won't discuss it. confused

23 Oct 2008

Quote by jaymar
On tonight's news....

Education is the key, but even I think 5 yrs old is a bit young and a bit extreme, they're only just learning how to fasten their shoe laces bless them :shock:

Oh dear Mar....not another newspaper thread? lol

I cannot think of anyone that would do that. hee hee xx

24 Oct 2008

Quote by Freckledbird

Education is the key, but even I think 5 yrs old is a bit young and a bit extreme, they're only just learning how to fasten their shoe laces bless them :shock:

part of me says its a good idea the education can only help but i too think 5 is a tad young!
We have five-year olds who ask questions because their mummy has moved her girlfriend in and their daddy out! Or, they have older siblings who are gay and they ask us about it because people at home won't discuss it. confused

That reminds me...
My maternal grandmother remarried when we were very young and because her new husband was not related by blood, he preferred to be called "uncle". My older sister (bless her) when she was about 12 (in the late 1950's early 60's) had to write an essay on "my family". After she had presented the work, the teacher called my parents in to school to discuss a few things. They were particularly concerned about the point made by my sister that her grandmother "sleeps with her uncle"..
Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings eh :shock:
hijack over

24 Oct 2008

With , underage drinking and underage smoking...what is the point in having laws put in place if children are allowed to break them? lol

You have to be 18 to buy drink and and fags and a lot of shops will not sell it to you until you are 21. So when a parent buys a child drink or fags, they are breaking the law but, and here's the but, the police do nothing. So what's the point in having the law there?
With , giving a condom to a 12 year old in my view is about as iresponsible as it gets. Are there no boundaries that people will not go over? Where does a person draw the line? Would someone give a 6 year old a condom? I would have said def not. What about 10 then, is that ok?
The trouble here is that some think they are doing the right thing, but in the long run, it is the worst thing. If the law on sex is 16 and people think that is too high, then change it. But until that happens, giving a child a mere baby almost, a condom at 12 is just not justifiable. Social services should have been called in to deal with it. They are the " experts ", not somebody who thinks they are " doing the right thing ".
Sorry but nobody will ever convince me that a 12 year old having sex is right,and condoning it by supplying the tools for the job, ten years ago would have landed you in prison, and that is where peoples values and morals have taken a nose dive, and it is why we find ourselves in this terrible situation.

24 Oct 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
With , underage drinking and underage smoking...what is the point in having laws put in place if children are allowed to break them?
You have to be 18 to buy drink and and fags and a lot of shops will not sell it to you until you are 21. So when a parent buys a child drink or fags, they are breaking the law but, and here's the but, the police do nothing. So what's the point in having the law there?
With , giving a condom to a 12 year old in my view is about as iresponsible as it gets. Are there no boundaries that people will not go over? Where does a person draw the line? Would someone give a 6 year old a condom? I would have said def not. What about 10 then, is that ok?
The trouble here is that some think they are doing the right thing, but in the long run, it is the worst thing. If the law on sex is 16 and people think that is too high, then change it. But until that happens, giving a child a mere baby almost, a condom at 12 is just not justifiable. Social services should have been called in to deal with it. They are the " experts ", not somebody who thinks they are " doing the right thing ".
Sorry but nobody will ever convince me that a 12 year old having sex is right,and condoning it by supplying the tools for the job, ten years ago would have landed you in prison, and that is where peoples values and morals have taken a nose dive, and it is why we find ourselves in this terrible situation.

I wholeheartedly agree with you 777.
The facilities to change the law, if it need be changed, are already in place... witness things like "Sarah's law" etc. We live in a democracy (supposedly) and that is what a democratic society is all about surely. If it's wrong, change it!
Now then, back to the plot. Is there an argument here that supplying condoms to 12 year old sexually actives, clearly outside the law (15 year old less likely so), or ignoring that it takes place (as in the case of the subject parent) is akin to a form of and people who do it - whether for the "right" reasons or not - are worthy of inclusion on the sex offenders register?
That should keep the thread going wink

24 Oct 2008

I am not an expert on these things at all, only my answers are based on what I believe in. They may be right and they may be wrong but...I do say things with my best intentions.
There are more organaisations out there now, where there are experts at hand to help.
Giving a condom to a 12 year old because one feels that is better that they are being careful, is not answering the underlying problem. Would it be ok to give a child of 12 some vodka, as long as they were being careful with it and not getting drunk?
What happens the next time that same child cannot get a condom? He will do it without, and damn the results as at 12 he would not think about the long term effects. As he is a child and as such will think like a child.
The answers I do not have, I wish I did.

24 Oct 2008

You may not have the answers 777 - nor do any of us I guess but, you are right thinking adult and I respect your views as such...

24 Oct 2008

Quote by GnV
You may not have the answers 777 - nor do any of us I guess but, you are right thinking adult and I respect your views as such...

Well thankyou GNV......where do I send the money? lol

:lol:

24 Oct 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
With , underage drinking and underage smoking...what is the point in having laws put in place if children are allowed to break them?
You have to be 18 to buy drink and and fags and a lot of shops will not sell it to you until you are 21. So when a parent buys a child drink or fags, they are breaking the law but, and here's the but, the police do nothing. So what's the point in having the law there?
With , giving a condom to a 12 year old in my view is about as iresponsible as it gets. Are there no boundaries that people will not go over? Where does a person draw the line? Would someone give a 6 year old a condom? I would have said def not. What about 10 then, is that ok?
The trouble here is that some think they are doing the right thing, but in the long run, it is the worst thing. If the law on sex is 16 and people think that is too high, then change it. But until that happens, giving a child a mere baby almost, a condom at 12 is just not justifiable. Social services should have been called in to deal with it. They are the " experts ", not somebody who thinks they are " doing the right thing ".
Sorry but nobody will ever convince me that a 12 year old having sex is right,and condoning it by supplying the tools for the job, ten years ago would have landed you in prison, and that is where peoples values and morals have taken a nose dive, and it is why we find ourselves in this terrible situation.

I'll answer some of the above from my perspective.
It was part of my job and our service delivery to give out condoms - we were also part of the C-Card Scheme. Not all my staff were able to do this unless they had attended a number of training courses - although they did attend basic training on sexual health. We had the support of other professional and worked to a strict set of guidelines.
Our policy (not sure if its across the uk) was if anyone under 13 yrs asked for condoms - they had to agree to go see a specially trained nurse before they were given out. During that talk with the nurse a number of things would be drawn out from that child - are they having sex? Are they at risk? Do they understand what they are doing? Loads of stuff...
Under-age sex was not condoned at all by our project and other agencies we worked with - we delivered sessions on relationship building, sexual health, self esteem, far to many to name - but all about understand themselves a little better and hopefully enabling them to make the right life choices.
This particular young person I gave condoms too had many other issues in her life. Social Services were spoken to and aware of what work we did with her. We also worked with the young men she was having sex with - ensuring they too had condoms.
We knew this young girl was sexually active from the age of 10 yrs old - at 11 yrs she was doing *line ups* in the local field that progressed to extremely risky sex. We also knew that the young men she was having sex with - already had Sti's.
What do you think would have happened to this young person if someone hadn't have intervened?
Her mother was dead. He father in Jail...she'd been in care now living with elderly grandparents who obviously couldn't cope, she had been passed around the family circle like a parcel.
We gave her a safe environment to talk and disclose issues she wanted to, to have fun, to take part in other opportunities, we gained help for her from other outside agencies, we supported her at school and outside it, she attended our themed sessions/training. We built up a relationship so good with her - that her sexual activity became less frequent. She started to understand that she can say *NO* and why she was doing what she did.
We did the right thing in this instance!! :smile:

24 Oct 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
You may not have the answers 777 - nor do any of us I guess but, you are right thinking adult and I respect your views as such...

Well thankyou GNV......where do I send the money? lol

:lol:
My Swiss account will do fine.. you have the number already I think - care of "Dark Prince Enterprises (aka Mandy Slush fund)" :grin:

24 Oct 2008

Quote by anais
With , underage drinking and underage smoking...what is the point in having laws put in place if children are allowed to break them?
You have to be 18 to buy drink and and fags and a lot of shops will not sell it to you until you are 21. So when a parent buys a child drink or fags, they are breaking the law but, and here's the but, the police do nothing. So what's the point in having the law there?
With , giving a condom to a 12 year old in my view is about as iresponsible as it gets. Are there no boundaries that people will not go over? Where does a person draw the line? Would someone give a 6 year old a condom? I would have said def not. What about 10 then, is that ok?
The trouble here is that some think they are doing the right thing, but in the long run, it is the worst thing. If the law on sex is 16 and people think that is too high, then change it. But until that happens, giving a child a mere baby almost, a condom at 12 is just not justifiable. Social services should have been called in to deal with it. They are the " experts ", not somebody who thinks they are " doing the right thing ".
Sorry but nobody will ever convince me that a 12 year old having sex is right,and condoning it by supplying the tools for the job, ten years ago would have landed you in prison, and that is where peoples values and morals have taken a nose dive, and it is why we find ourselves in this terrible situation.

I'll answer some of the above from my perspective.
It was part of my job and our service delivery to give out condoms - we were also part of the C-Card Scheme. Not all my staff were able to do this unless they had attended a number of training courses - although they did attend basic training on sexual health. We had the support of other professional and worked to a strict set of guidelines.
Our policy (not sure if its across the uk) was if anyone under 13 yrs asked for condoms - they had to agree to go see a specially trained nurse before they were given out. During that talk with the nurse a number of things would be drawn out from that child - are they having sex? Are they at risk? Do they understand what they are doing? Loads of stuff...
Under-age sex was not condoned at all by our project and other agencies we worked with - we delivered sessions on relationship building, sexual health, self esteem, far to many to name - but all about understand themselves a little better and hopefully enabling them to make the right life choices.
This particular young person I gave condoms too had many other issues in her life. Social Services were spoken to and aware of what work we did with her. We also worked with the young men she was having sex with - ensuring they too had condoms.
We knew this young girl was sexually active from the age of 10 yrs old - at 11 yrs she was doing *line ups* in the local field that progressed to extremely risky sex. We also knew that the young men she was having sex with - already had Sti's.
What do you think would have happened to this young person if someone hadn't have intervened?
Her mother was dead. He father in Jail...she'd been in care now living with elderly grandparents who obviously couldn't cope, she had been passed around the family circle like a parcel.
We gave her a safe environment to talk and disclose issues she wanted to, to have fun, to take part in other opportunities, we gained help for her from other outside agencies, we supported her at school and outside it, she attended our themed sessions/training. We built up a relationship so good with her - that her sexual activity became less frequent. She started to understand that she can say *NO* and why she was doing what she did.
We did the right thing in this instance!! :smile:
Anais you are now saying things which you did NOT say to start with in your original post. All you said was you gave a 12 year old a condom, now and only now are you giving the reasons.
Surely this person was a classic case of being put with a foster family and away from her family, that obviously could not cope? I am amazed that this kind of thing is going on with a child so young. I really cannot wait to get away from this country in a few years time, and to escape what this country has now become.
I am not digging at you Anais, but what you just described in your reply to me, has just left me speechless. This would never have happened twenty years ago, so something seriously has gone wrong with our society, and the sooner I am away from it...the better. My opinion.