The other evening I watched a documentary based on and presented by the violinist Vanessa Mae.
The programme was about her questioning the controversial debate on is it Nurture or Nature that made her have the talent that she has today.
The points she raised were:
1. Was she born gifted?
2. Was it due to the fact from an early she was programmed to enjoy playing?
3. Was it down to her upbringing?
4. Was her strict practice regime the reason why she had this talent?
She met some top professors in their own field, had brains scan, electronic probes monitoring brain waves all of which gave their conclusions.
At the end of the programme it came down to the fact that it was shown that she had an acute hearing beyond normal people’s ability, she also had a concentration level will above her years as a child.
It was not proven that she was born with such gifts.
It was proven to be the top in your field in musical terms you have to practice the same amounts of times that she did as a child.
She said for a while she questioned a lot about her childhood, she resented the fact she didn’t have the normal child hood as other children and was unable to socialise with friends and do things other children could do.
Hence the reason for this documentary
I was left with a feeling most of it came down to Nurture.
Can children be programmed?
Should a child so young be denied their childhood, the ability to socialise and play with children her own age?
In striving to achieve a high standard worth the losses you make on the way?
While I was left with mixed feelings I then realised she has gained so much, but could I inflict this upon my child I doubt, as to me it seemed she questioned a lot about life, but at the age of around 30 she seemed a very nice level headed person she seems to have come to terms of who she is.
I couldn’t wait this long to see my child totally happy could you?
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What are you thoughts?
Even if I saw an extreme talent in my child, I would choose not to push her until she was old enough to decide to follow it.
I believe that childhood, nurturing, socialization and play are more important than pushing talents...unless the child is of an age to say that they want to.
Children who have been 'pushed' too much, always seem to be missing true 'fun' and love of life (don't they????).
I believe that childhood, nurturing, socialization and play are more important than pushing talents...unless the child is of an age to say that they want to.
Children who have been 'pushed' too much, always seem to be missing true 'fun' and love of life (don't they????).
On the other hand... my teachers told my parents that I was gifted, and, because they had problems of their own, my parents were not willing or able to take any interest in my development.
I feel I missed out on so much that I could have done, could have achieved, if I'd had a different upbringing. I am bitter, when I think about it.
Not sure if this answers the question in any way
I feel I missed out on so much that I could have done, could have achieved, if I'd had a different upbringing. I am bitter, when I think about it.
Not sure if this answers the question in any way
Sex God
My parents were told, when I was about six years old, that I was talented and that I would be better provided for in private education. They didn't have the money to do anything about it though, so I went through mainstream state education. Hasn't hurt me.
Quote by Bjlips2008
Even if I saw an extreme talent in my child, I would choose not to push her until she was old enough to decide to follow it.
I believe that childhood, nurturing, socialization and play are more important than pushing talents...unless the child is of an age to say that they want to.
Children who have been 'pushed' too much, always seem to be missing true 'fun' and love of life (don't they????).
I feel they miss out on so much, but look what she has now she has the world open to her, been to places and done things a lot can only dream of.
But I am still left with the feeling are these people truly happy?
She seems so now but I got the feeling it has taken to her age now to get there.
I think they can only analyse their lives at an age that she has now 30ish and start to understand it for what it is, and make sense of it all. Do you agree?
Quote by Cherrytree
On the other hand... my teachers told my parents that I was gifted, and, because they had problems of their own, my parents were not willing or able to take any interest in my development.
I feel I missed out on so much that I could have done, could have achieved, if I'd had a different upbringing. I am bitter, when I think about it.
Not sure if this answers the question in any way
Cherry it does, you feel you have missed out.
I think you are very honest in what you have said, and feel.
But also Vanessa felt she missed out on so much to and bitter towards her mother whom she hasent spoken to for 8 years.
So you might have gained things she feels she has missed out on, who knows?
I suppose it is hard for parents to always get things right. We can only do our best at the time.
It is the hardest job in the world being a parent I believe.
My own personal belief is that kids aren't born 'gifted' per se, but I do believe that they have certain optimised brain functions that if discovered could lead to a savant like ability in various different fields such as the arts, science etc.
As for the question can kids be programmed. Yes they most certainly can, all of us can. it's only the level of programming that changes. Being educated is nothing but programming. You feed data in, it's retained and then used for appropriate tasks.
As with many other autistics I do (did) have certain abilities over and above the 'normal' person. They were far more pronounced as a younger person, but as many psychologists/psychiatrists agree autism just comes as a result of areas of the brain being more efficient than others, similarly other areas are less efficient. This is no different than non-autistics other than the level at which they occur.
As for the question can kids be programmed. Yes they most certainly can, all of us can. it's only the level of programming that changes. Being educated is nothing but programming. You feed data in, it's retained and then used for appropriate tasks.
As with many other autistics I do (did) have certain abilities over and above the 'normal' person. They were far more pronounced as a younger person, but as many psychologists/psychiatrists agree autism just comes as a result of areas of the brain being more efficient than others, similarly other areas are less efficient. This is no different than non-autistics other than the level at which they occur.
Quote by Peanut
My own personal belief is that kids aren't born 'gifted' per se, but I do believe that they have certain optimised brain functions that if discovered could lead to a savant like ability in various different fields such as the arts, science etc.
As for the question can kids be programmed. Yes they most certainly can, all of us can. it's only the level of programming that changes. Being educated is nothing but programming. You feed data in, it's retained and then used for appropriate tasks.
As with many other autistics I do (did) have certain abilities over and above the 'normal' person. They were far more pronounced as a younger person, but as many psychologists/psychiatrists agree autism just comes as a result of areas of the brain being more efficient than others, similarly other areas are less efficient. This is no different than non-autistics other than the level at which they occur.
Can I ask do you have Asperger Syndrome?
As I have a friend with two boys that have this form of Austim, and purely by change she specialised in this form of Autism when doing her special needs training well before having children.
Not at all wanting to blow my own trumpet here, or anything, but...I think that in order to do something to that level there needs to be a bit of both. I began playing the flute when I was 7 and seemed to excell very quickly. I was told I had a natural ability. From an early age I had a range of interests and didn't practice every day, let alone for more than about 20 mins at a time! I never went for private lessons and went through all my school life having my flute lessons in school (15-20 mins per week). This was partly because my parents held the belief that it was good enough for me, they couldn't really afford to send me for private lessons, and they never wanted to puch me. As I went through my school life the amount of time i dedicated to the flute and practicing increased, but never to the amount you hear from some people. However, I managed to get to a standard that allowed me to audition for music college and be accepted. I don't think I would have enjoyed playing as much as I do now if my parents had have pushed me. Instead, music was always something I chose to do and did for enjoyment. I'm glad I studied music to degree level, but for me music is still, primarily, something I enjoy.
In my current career as a teacher I see so many parents who want their children to perform better than they are. One of my parents came to me at parents evening this year telling me she wanted her son to get better grades (he was the lower end of what is deemed 'average' for his yeargroup). The mum in question complained that her daughter was 'above average' but her son wasn't, despite them both having private tuition outside school.
I suppose at the end of the day it's different for all of us. Some people will want to do something, enjoy it and acheive. Some will not want to, will bw pushed and depending on their own abilities/personalities etc will achieve or not achieve. Some people will have abilities they never get the opportunity to nurture and show. We all ahve different personalities and interests because of our genetic make up as well as the surroundings we grow up in, I think the same can be said of the abilities we have.
Hope that makes sense!
In my current career as a teacher I see so many parents who want their children to perform better than they are. One of my parents came to me at parents evening this year telling me she wanted her son to get better grades (he was the lower end of what is deemed 'average' for his yeargroup). The mum in question complained that her daughter was 'above average' but her son wasn't, despite them both having private tuition outside school.
I suppose at the end of the day it's different for all of us. Some people will want to do something, enjoy it and acheive. Some will not want to, will bw pushed and depending on their own abilities/personalities etc will achieve or not achieve. Some people will have abilities they never get the opportunity to nurture and show. We all ahve different personalities and interests because of our genetic make up as well as the surroundings we grow up in, I think the same can be said of the abilities we have.
Hope that makes sense!
Quote by strawberrytart
Not at all wanting to blow my own trumpet here, or anything, but...I think that in order to do something to that level there needs to be a bit of both. I began playing the flute when I was 7 and seemed to excell very quickly. I was told I had a natural ability. From an early age I had a range of interests and didn't practice every day, let alone for more than about 20 mins at a time! I never went for private lessons and went through all my school life having my flute lessons in school (15-20 mins per week). This was partly because my parents held the belief that it was good enough for me, they couldn't really afford to send me for private lessons, and they never wanted to puch me. As I went through my school life the amount of time i dedicated to the flute and practicing increased, but never to the amount you hear from some people. However, I managed to get to a standard that allowed me to audition for music college and be accepted. I don't think I would have enjoyed playing as much as I do now if my parents had have pushed me. Instead, music was always something I chose to do and did for enjoyment. I'm glad I studied music to degree level, but for me music is still, primarily, something I enjoy.
In my current career as a teacher I see so many parents who want their children to perform better than they are. One of my parents came to me at parents evening this year telling me she wanted her son to get better grades (he was the lower end of what is deemed 'average' for his yeargroup). The mum in question complained that her daughter was 'above average' but her son wasn't, despite them both having private tuition outside school.
I suppose at the end of the day it's different for all of us. Some people will want to do something, enjoy it and acheive. Some will not want to, will bw pushed and depending on their own abilities/personalities etc will achieve or not achieve. Some people will have abilities they never get the opportunity to nurture and show. We all ahve different personalities and interests because of our genetic make up as well as the surroundings we grow up in, I think the same can be said of the abilities we have.
Hope that makes sense!
What a lot of people do though is get confused with this whole prodigy thing.
Kids are not born with the ability or the knowledge to play an instrument. What they are born with though is a predisposition for it. They still need to be taught and they still need to practice what they are taught.
Their talent lies in the fact that they pick up the teaching quickly and that they benefit much more from the practising.
What they aren't though is a foetus who knows what a barre technique is, or bridge damping et al. They still need to learn all the little subtleties and they still need to practice them. Likewise their physical body has to adapt to certain things such as building up callouses on their finger tips for guitar work, or strengthening their fingers for piano work, or thickening the fragile lip membranes for woodwind playing etc etc.
Quote by Freckledbird
My parents were told, when I was about six years old, that I was talented and that I would be better provided for in private education. They didn't have the money to do anything about it though, so I went through mainstream state education. Hasn't hurt me.
You sure FB.
:lol: Only playing. xx Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
My parents were told, when I was about six years old, that I was talented and that I would be better provided for in private education. They didn't have the money to do anything about it though, so I went through mainstream state education. Hasn't hurt me.
You sure FB.
:lol: Only playing. xx
:smackbottom: Cheeky bugger! :lol: Quote by Freckledbird
My parents were told, when I was about six years old, that I was talented and that I would be better provided for in private education. They didn't have the money to do anything about it though, so I went through mainstream state education. Hasn't hurt me.
You sure FB.
:lol: Only playing. xx :smackbottom: Cheeky bugger! :lol:From what I can see it doesn't seem to have affected your grammar and/or your counting skills.
Music has been a major part of my life, for most of my life. I feel I was lucky enough to have parents who wanted me to make the most of this talent. They took an active interest in my learning process even though they had no marked ability themselves.
The eventual plan was to go to one of the London colleges and take a performers course or go to university and pursue an academic career in Music.
I did the usual bolshy teenage thing and rebelled and did neither. As things have turned out I became a professional musician late in life. But I never forget the input of my parents. If they were still alive they'd probably have sighed with relief.
I have pupils of my own now of all ages and I always tell them that there is almost nothing that can't be achieved with good, thoughtful and constructive practice.
In my view, anyone who picks up an instrument already has a talent for it. It may be just a spark but that's all thats needed to light the fire. Its up to the teachers and parents to bring it out.
The eventual plan was to go to one of the London colleges and take a performers course or go to university and pursue an academic career in Music.
I did the usual bolshy teenage thing and rebelled and did neither. As things have turned out I became a professional musician late in life. But I never forget the input of my parents. If they were still alive they'd probably have sighed with relief.
I have pupils of my own now of all ages and I always tell them that there is almost nothing that can't be achieved with good, thoughtful and constructive practice.
In my view, anyone who picks up an instrument already has a talent for it. It may be just a spark but that's all thats needed to light the fire. Its up to the teachers and parents to bring it out.
Sexlightened
my thoughts for now are quite simply 'which shitbag forgot to buy any tonic to go with the gin?'
Sorry for going off topic here, but it's quite clearly amongst the most significant issues in the world at present.
Sorry for going off topic here, but it's quite clearly amongst the most significant issues in the world at present.
Sex God
When I was young, lost and rudderless I was found by a teacher. He pushed shoved and directed me into what I am know. It is true that if there was not something there before then he would have been wasting his time. However, he was not wasting his time. He did me a favour to big to thank him for. I have no idea who I would be today with out him.
Thank you sensei, for every thing.
Travis
Thank you sensei, for every thing.
Travis
Vanessa May didn't appear to be on very good terms with her mother at all though.
This seems to happen a lot with child prodigies with pushy parents, like that girl from Oxford who was a Maths genius or somethign and ended up runnign away to escape her Dad and becoming an escort girl!
I can't see how all that has ultimately been a good life experience no matter how clever she is!
It's f-ed her right up basically!
This seems to happen a lot with child prodigies with pushy parents, like that girl from Oxford who was a Maths genius or somethign and ended up runnign away to escape her Dad and becoming an escort girl!
I can't see how all that has ultimately been a good life experience no matter how clever she is!
It's f-ed her right up basically!
