Quote by MikeNorth
Yes, and look what just happened after Virgin stores changed their name to Zavvi!
I don’t think it just changed its name, wasn’t it a buy out?
Someone was looking into a crystal ball me thinks
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Theladyisaminx
Over 90 days ago
Straight Female, 62
United Kingdom
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Quote by flower411
Individuals will always be able to learn from the past.
Unfortunately these individuals are rarely able to overcome the aggression and prejudices of those around them.
Feudalism and Capitalism have been mentioned as have Socialism and Communism....these systems ..along with Dictatorships and Democracies have one overiding desire at heart...
And that is to convert everybody else to their own system ...by force if necessary.
We all thought that Democracy would bring an end to this kind of thing but it has .....as with all political systems.....been hijacked by the warmongers as have the major world religions.
We will always be controlled by the bloodthirsty Blairs, Bin Ladens, Bushes Etc of this world.
They all think that their political system or religion is better than the other guys and they are prepared to kill and maim as many people as possible.
It`s been going on since records began !!! Why should we start learning now ??
I believe it is never to late to learn, or am I being naive?
Whoops !!! Sorry ... I meant ...How do you think we can learn collectively ??
The Warmongers will always hijack any system and there will always be enough stupid people to follow them.
Flower
It has taken me a while to answer your question, this isn’t to think up the answer I feel people would like to hear, but this thread has opened up the depth of me and I am finding it really hard to put into words. I have had a good chat with hubby about it and he says I am too idealistic.
I will take this country as a basis for starting.
Until people see things in a different way then I guess things will always stay on a merry-g-round.
I can only answer about how I see things and what I believe until we stop putting ourselves first and everything is based on monetary gain, until we can in some way eradicate Greed, jealousy, hatred, and the lust for power as staffs so rightly mentioned we have no answers.
I don’t believe everything can be perfect, but I do believe in some aspects it is getting worse.
We have gained so much but it seems have learnt very little.
We have to go back to the start of life to look at what we needed like any living creature.
We needed food, water, shelter we needed to protect ourselves and our young.
Look at what we have now and for a lot it still isn’t enough.
I believe once we have the above point we should then be helping others to survive as we are all part of this planet.
I don’t believe anything has worked so far to thrive for an even balance, I don’t believe we can all be equal but I do believe we all humans.
I in the whole scheme of things I feel I have what I need, my young are protected have shelter warm and food I feel I live in utopia in my life, my next step is to give to others which I do, to me this is where utopia starts, to give, not for monetary gain or thanks, but that you feel within your self a sense of contentment I feel is second to non.
If I had more I would give more, there is only so much a person needs.
I do believe in people being able to strive forward, but don’t forget someone’s gain is always someone else’s loss.
To gain for self indulgence I find very hard to understand or accept personally.
Still ever wandering how we can achieve this, knowing that I may want the unachievable.
I know there is no easy answers all I can do is look within myself and see what I feel is the right way forward and act accordingly.
If my future generations think along the same lines as me I will be happy.
That then will be their history.
Quote by flower411
Individuals will always be able to learn from the past.
Unfortunately these individuals are rarely able to overcome the aggression and prejudices of those around them.
Feudalism and Capitalism have been mentioned as have Socialism and Communism....these systems ..along with Dictatorships and Democracies have one overiding desire at heart...
And that is to convert everybody else to their own system ...by force if necessary.
We all thought that Democracy would bring an end to this kind of thing but it has .....as with all political systems.....been hijacked by the warmongers as have the major world religions.
We will always be controlled by the bloodthirsty Blairs, Bin Ladens, Bushes Etc of this world.
They all think that their political system or religion is better than the other guys and they are prepared to kill and maim as many people as possible.
It`s been going on since records began !!! Why should we start learning now ??
I believe it is never to late to learn, or am I being naive?
Quote by staffcple
Minxy,
I don't think they are the only attributes humanity has!
I believe that although everyone has the capability for compassion, altruism and 'humanity' for want of a better word, there is also the capability within us all for great cruelty, which if the situation is right will become the default behaviour.
I think it is human nature to strive to better ourselves, most of the great discoveries however are born either from the desire to destroy others, or to combat and prevent our destruction.
Goes all the way back to pre-history, homo-sapiens are at their core predators, the off shoot of that is predatory behaviours, started out with sharpened sticks for food, ended up with guided weapons and mass murder for the reasons in my previous post.
Go figure?
Minxy,
I don't think they are the only attributes humanity has!
I know I was joking with my last comment.
I believe that although everyone has the capability for compassion, altruism and 'humanity' for want of a better word, there is also the capability within us all for great cruelty, which if the situation is right will become the default behaviour.
The only time I could ever imagine I could resort to the default behaviour, would be to protect my young.
I think it is human nature to strive to better ourselves, most of the great discoveries however are born either from the desire to destroy others, or to combat and prevent our destruction.
To strive in my mind is to search for something, what is it that we are striving for?
Are you meaning we are striving as a human race?
Or are you saying people strive for their own self gain?
Goes all the way back to pre-history, homo-sapiens are at their core predators, the off shoot of that is predatory behaviours, started out with sharpened sticks for food, ended up with guided weapons and mass murder for the reasons in my previous post.
Go figure?
This is what I can’t understand I feel to a degree we have evolved past being predatory beings or have we?
My hubby just said the last statement he feels I am trying to advance our evolution by 5000 years
Staffs take back my previous comment I think I am more evolved than some lol
Quote by staffcple
We don't learn as a species from the mistakes of previous generations for a few simple reasons imho.
Things that are part of the 'human condition' at times override our more softer attributes, things such as;
The lust for power and authority,
Jealousy,
Greed,
Hatred aimed at those we view as different,
A lot of these attributes are in-built and hard wired through generation after generation of instinctive behaviour, to expect human beings to act differently is asking us to go against everything that enabled us to become the dominant species in the first place.
Good question, but a hell of a difficult one to answer!
Staffs What a response to make me think.
If what you mentioned makes up the dominant species.
Maybe I should accept I have not evolved to become the finished species yet!
Quote by Geordiecpl2001
If your clever you'll learn from your mistakes......if your REALLY clever you'll learn from other people's mistakes!!!
History shows you lots of other peoples mistakes, unfortunatly very few of our leaders seem to understand that!!
But its no good just knowing our history, its as well to know the history of the other guy. Then you might see his point of view.
John
I Should explain myself a little as one of the things that lead me to write this thread was researching, Wat Tyler and the peasants revolt on poll taxes in 1381, and how it had similar outcomes in the 1980’s some 500 years later just not on the same scale.
Plus there are other similarities that have happened in the past that are mirroring present day situations.
I just wonder why we can not learn from the past what doesn’t work so change tactics.
Quote by fem_4_taboo
its difficult to make these desisions, and its comforting to get back upwith your desisions.
if it hadnt been 2 bus rides away,and i dont know what area you live in then i would have said let her go with some bounderies in place.
i do think its sad when parents dont let their children out to explore life and take risks but this has to be within bounderies.
sadely you see to many people who dont take your stance on this and either let them go out and dont know or care what their children are upto, or restrict them so much they cant cope with life.
can i ask minx and you dont have to ask but what was it you were fearful of happening?
like i said i dont know the area you live in. im very lucky here and we dont have the worry of gangs etc.
i think being open and discussing situations that could arise helps the to feel confident when out to react right.
sometimes kids ask to do things mates have asked them todo , but hey dont really feel comftable in doing and actually wanted you to say no
xxxfem xxx
We live in London Fem the park in question is across the road from their school so they are used to the bus journeys and travelling, it is a park I have started to let them go with a whole group of about 20 children after school for 30 mines on a Monday and Friday as they finish school at on these days, I do then phone them to be making their way home, and they have then got back within the time limit.
I think what I am fearful about is that it is so far away and if something did happen as I can’t drive I wouldn't be able to get there soon enough.
I let them go after school as the school is still open and at least then there is somewhere to wait that is safe if I needed to get to them.
I do let my children out, but I like them to have a purpose for going out, and they are really good about calling me etc to say they arrived and that they are leaving. If they go to the cinema as an example.
It is a shame but my biggest fear is that they could have trouble with other children.
I am glad others feel the way I do, I sometimes feel it is I that is being over protective as her friends seem able to go all the time, it just seems I am the one always saying no.
I do let my children out as I have twins boy and girl they often go together with friends to the cinema swimming or down the local high street. I do have their friends back here most days I am happy with them all being here, they both had a friend each staying over last night.
This new idea of going to the park has just come about since starting secondary school in September and I really don’t feel comfortable with her going.
I think it could be a case of testing the boundaries maybe, as my eldest son never seemed to want so much freedom at the age of 12 it is a little new to me.
I haven’t let her go and I know she wouldn’t go without me knowing as she has in the past called from a friends to ask if she could, as now I don’t feel so overly protective I am going to stick to her not going.
Thanks all for the great responses.
It is hard to get the balance right at times and it helps to get a broader view of others opinions.
I do let my children out as I have twins boy and girl they often go together with friends to the cinema swimming or down the local high street. I do have their friends back here most days I am happy with them all being here, they both had a friend each staying over last night.
This new idea of going to the park has just come about since starting secondary school in September and I really don’t feel comfortable with her going.
I think it could be a case of testing the boundaries maybe, as my eldest son never seemed to want so much freedom at the age of 12 it is a little new to me.
I haven’t let her go and I know she wouldn’t go without me knowing as she has in the past called from a friends to ask if she could, as now I don’t feel so overly protective I am going to stick to her not going.
Thanks all for the great responses.
It is hard to get the balance right at times and it helps to get a broader view of others opinions.
What got me thinking about this question is history is starting to interest me greatly.
Since my children have come along and helping with homework it has made me reopen my mind to history and I have started to look at it all with a much more interested open and understanding mind than while I was at school.
It seems we haven’t learnt a lot from past mistakes but it seems we are on a merry-g-round with history just keeping on repeating itself.
If we have come so far in our abilities and understand why does this keep happening?
I know there is a saying within families “learn from previous generations mistakes”, but there is a counter saying “that each has to learn by their own mistakes”.
But surely if we see ourselves to a degree being more knowledgeable than people in the past.
Why do we keep making the same mistakes?
Since my children have come along and helping with homework it has made me reopen my mind to history and I have started to look at it all with a much more interested open and understanding mind than while I was at school.
It seems we haven’t learnt a lot from past mistakes but it seems we are on a merry-g-round with history just keeping on repeating itself.
If we have come so far in our abilities and understand why does this keep happening?
I know there is a saying within families “learn from previous generations mistakes”, but there is a counter saying “that each has to learn by their own mistakes”.
But surely if we see ourselves to a degree being more knowledgeable than people in the past.
Why do we keep making the same mistakes?
Quote by Dave__Notts
:shock: I had to google it and found out I have been spelling it wrong all my life. There were some sites that did spell it the way I did. Is this an americanism or something?
Dave_Notts
I think you would have been safe putting a s on the end as it is 1 tomato or 10 tomatoes
My 12 year old daughter would like to meet with friends at a park near her school.
The park is 2 bus rides away and a park that doesn’t have park keepers in attendance I believe.
She said there are 8 children from school all meeting there and I know I can trust her to be sensible.
They have been many times before after school but in a larger group and her brother is always with her. They have never had a problem before.
Knowing the school was open across the road was a comfort but it will be closed due to the holiday period.
I know of her friends and they are a good group of children that like to have fun.
But I do not feel comfortable with her being so far away.
Should I let her go?
Would you let your sensible 12 year old go?
I don’t worry about her getting there and back safely or that an accident will happen.
I do worry about other groups of children coming along and causing trouble.
Would you worry about such things?
I do feel a bit mean not letting her go.
I have let them go out alone but it is normally to the cinema, swimming etc
The park is 2 bus rides away and a park that doesn’t have park keepers in attendance I believe.
She said there are 8 children from school all meeting there and I know I can trust her to be sensible.
They have been many times before after school but in a larger group and her brother is always with her. They have never had a problem before.
Knowing the school was open across the road was a comfort but it will be closed due to the holiday period.
I know of her friends and they are a good group of children that like to have fun.
But I do not feel comfortable with her being so far away.
Should I let her go?
Would you let your sensible 12 year old go?
I don’t worry about her getting there and back safely or that an accident will happen.
I do worry about other groups of children coming along and causing trouble.
Would you worry about such things?
I do feel a bit mean not letting her go.
I have let them go out alone but it is normally to the cinema, swimming etc
Quote by Deviants
Flower your postings are usually quite sensible
However nobody should be held accountable for having their child abducted, apart from the abductor/s
Whether they were 50 yards away or in the next room is irrelevant as NO child should be abducted.
If you really do think they should be held accountable, then you better retract your last statement, because most children that do go missing do so when out of their parents sight and that certainly doesn’t make the parents accountable, and as for people suggesting she would never have gone missing if the parents weren’t across at the restaurant, I’d like to know why they think this as its happened before when parents are around and unfortunately will certainly happen again. The only reasoning I can see behind it is they want to at least blame someone.
All the best to everyone in 2009
I believe you should ask yourself this question.
Would you leave your child in a place like that or at home even at their ages?
I for one have never left my children alone at that age even to pop into a neighbour’s house for 2 minutes, we have to as parent’s judge what age is acceptable to leave a child alone, each child is different. the ages they were was in my opinion totally unacceptable.
If they done the same thing in this country I am sure more questions would be raised, why is it that people think it is any different abroad?
you mentioned that children have gone missing while out of their parents sight, while playing etc ...we all know the cases. but these children were a lot older, I feel there is a difference and the ages are a key factor.
I don’t think for one minute any child should be abducted the people that do this are the lowest form.
But we as parents have to judge when the time is right to give our children the freedom to be left alone, and I believe the parents totally got it wrong.
If they done it in this country I am sure they would have been held accountable.
I would just like to add, because people might disagree with you, it just means we see it from a different view point.
We are all intital to our own opinions.
Don't take it so personal
I'm not taking it personal, honest, and it isn't about whether they should or shouldn't have left their children unattended, we all know that answer, I don't need to ask myself that question thanks.
What got to me was the fact that anyone can take offence at this very sentence "my thoughts go out at christmas to Madeleine McCann" and suggest that the parents deserve no sympathy because they were bad parents and made a bad judgement, well sorry the "they got what they deserved" or the "they were partly to blame" doesn't wash off with me and they'll have my sympathy regardless, as I can't even imagine the hell they are going through. I know its an emotive subject but how can anyone even suggest there’s more deserving children or parents out there when we're talking about missing children? they are All equally deserving regardless of how they went missing or the events leading upto it.
I don’t think anyone with a bit of compassion can't have some form of sympathy for the parents I do, but I have 100% sympathy for the Maddie and all the other children this has happened to.
I think it is more to do with why just this case?
There are a lot of parents that have lost children due to illness etc so to hear a child that this has happened, through I would say a decision the parents is a little harder to swallow, your babies are precious gifts to cherish and protect.
I personally can not understand anyone leaving their little ones alone even in bed to go for a meal, I would like to ask what were they thinking?
Quote by Dirtygirlie
I have a terrible memory. If it's not something I use every day then I don't retain the information. If it's not something I need to know then I don't retain the information. I know random stuff and there are other things that may be fairly common knowledge to some people but I've never heard of them. There are every day things that people read in the newspapers that I don't know about because I don't read newspapers. Does that make me less intelligent? Maybe it does, maybe it's just that we're all different and our intelligence comes in many different forms. :mrgreen:
I know sod all about politics and religion which is generally why I don't get involved in those kind of threads. If you don't know about a topic then it's great to read and learn but to contribute to things in a know-it-all manner when you clearly know nothing about them seems fairly stupid. Having an open mind to listen to other peoples views and opinions seems way smarter than a having a closed mind and dismissing other opinions because they don't match your own.
Common sense... I have some of that!
However, I have to add that I do remember that it wasn't school who taught me manners... it was my parents way before I even went to school.
:shock: you could be my twin!
:thumbup:
After keep reading on threads what people seem to want on threads, and all have different opinions
I thought I would conduct a poll so here goes.
I personally would say I like to share expierances and learn from others.
I like a good debate and discussion
even a strong topical debate in an adult like way too.
I thought I would conduct a poll so here goes.
I personally would say I like to share expierances and learn from others.
I like a good debate and discussion
even a strong topical debate in an adult like way too.
Quote by Deviants
Flower your postings are usually quite sensible
However nobody should be held accountable for having their child abducted, apart from the abductor/s
Whether they were 50 yards away or in the next room is irrelevant as NO child should be abducted.
If you really do think they should be held accountable, then you better retract your last statement, because most children that do go missing do so when out of their parents sight and that certainly doesn’t make the parents accountable, and as for people suggesting she would never have gone missing if the parents weren’t across at the restaurant, I’d like to know why they think this as its happened before when parents are around and unfortunately will certainly happen again. The only reasoning I can see behind it is they want to at least blame someone.
All the best to everyone in 2009
I believe you should ask yourself this question.
Would you leave your child in a place like that or at home even at their ages?
I for one have never left my children alone at that age even to pop into a neighbour’s house for 2 minutes, we have to as parent’s judge what age is acceptable to leave a child alone, each child is different. the ages they were was in my opinion totally unacceptable.
If they done the same thing in this country I am sure more questions would be raised, why is it that people think it is any different abroad?
you mentioned that children have gone missing while out of their parents sight, while playing etc ...we all know the cases. but these children were a lot older, I feel there is a difference and the ages are a key factor.
I don’t think for one minute any child should be abducted the people that do this are the lowest form.
But we as parents have to judge when the time is right to give our children the freedom to be left alone, and I believe the parents totally got it wrong.
If they done it in this country I am sure they would have been held accountable.
I would just like to add, because people might disagree with you, it just means we see it from a different view point.
We are all intital to our own opinions.
Don't take it so personal
Quote by kentswingers777
Just a passing thought
Isn’t someone that has had a good formal education or very well read just more knowledgeable?
Does knowledge equate to intelligence?
I personally don’t think so.
Well the English Dictionary says other wise.... Intelligence " the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills ". So sorry Minxy your above comment cannot be right.
If someone is knowledgable, then I would have thought it stood to reason, they were intelligent. Or.....to be intelligent is to have a sound knowledge. Sort of goes hand in hand.
Unless the English dictionary is wrong?
The dictionary is correct. As it says, intelligence is the application of knowledge. But you can have knowledge with no intelligence. You can have intelligence with no knowledge (but that is rare since everyone picks up info all the time). So, they aren't the same thing, they may not go hand in hand, BUT I would say that to be really useful, they need to both exist in the same person.
Knowledgeable does not indicate intelligent.
Oh and you absolutely do not need to have had formal education to be knowledgeable.
Then on that basis, anyone who says differently to that, is talking rubbish?
To have or to gain knowledge IS intelligence.....period.
What is your reasoning to think you are right?
As I think you are talking rubbish
As you so rightly quoted the dictionary " the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills = Intelligence
you have to AQUIRE and APPLY to = Intelligence
Just because someone acquires it does not make them intelligent in the dictionary.
It just means they are able to retain information, a bit like a computer.
Computers are programmed to retain information.
I believe it is the applying of knowledge that is the key factor, on how someone applies the information is what makes them intelligent.
It is ok having it. It is then what you do with it.
Quote by kentswingers777
Just a passing thought
Isn’t someone that has had a good formal education or very well read just more knowledgeable?
Does knowledge equate to intelligence?
I personally don’t think so.
Well the English Dictionary says other wise.... Intelligence " the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills ". So sorry Minxy your above comment cannot be right.
If someone is knowledgable, then I would have thought it stood to reason, they were intelligent. Or.....to be intelligent is to have a sound knowledge. Sort of goes hand in hand.
Unless the English dictionary is wrong?
I believe I could be right as to acquire is one part, it is then how you apply it.
To have the knowledge and apply it wisely I feel equates to intelligent.
To have the knowledge and not apply wisely I feel is stupid.
Interesting thread flower!
A question that has always baffled me
If you are looking at education as being academic achievements or qualifications I have neither.
If you are looking at intelligent I don’t see myself as such.
As people that get to know me say I am not stupid. How can someone not be stupid that feels they haven’t had a good academic education?
This is something that has always baffled me!
So can intelligence come from your thought processes, your own ability to work things out?
Or can it come from your up bringing of your parents?
Or is it in your genes?
A question that has always baffled me
If you are looking at education as being academic achievements or qualifications I have neither.
If you are looking at intelligent I don’t see myself as such.
As people that get to know me say I am not stupid. How can someone not be stupid that feels they haven’t had a good academic education?
This is something that has always baffled me!
So can intelligence come from your thought processes, your own ability to work things out?
Or can it come from your up bringing of your parents?
Or is it in your genes?
Quote by Lost
there is a thin line that determine how we progress as a race. there is obviously a control issue here. Some may say that it is a good thing that maybe some people should not have children - the problem comes with where these boundaries stop and who decides that? Not a position i'd like to be put in. I'm a coward i guess.
I can see the want/need to stop some becoming parents but a little alarm bell is ringsdeep down inside when I here/read such things. This type of alarm bell tolls with the sound of population control and manipulation.
I think that society should be aware of such problems and be ready to step in and help/sort things out but as too being able to stop people being parents. I would never fully accept that.
Lost I agree, after all who would decide who is or isn't a good parent?
I believe there are a lot of people doing their best to be good parents, we are not given manuals on how to be the perfect parent and I don't for one think perfect parenting exists, we all learn the best way we can and each child is an individual and needs different things from parents.
But I do detest when the government seems to think they could make better parents than letting us get on with it.
They never seem to acknowledge that some of us also are producing some good kids in society that have the fundamental basis in place to be good citizens.
As we know from the past ie Children’s act as example it never stops bad parents being parents, but puts obstacles in the way of all parents that are trying to their best.
I do believe the internet needs looking into but to say adults then will not be able to accesses internet sites that are there for people over the age of 18 to me is totally wrong.
I am an adult I should be able to access sites like this as it part of my fun and enjoyment, I don’t believe children should have access but then controls are in place for that.
We all know there is a lot on the internet that should never be there, that is what needs to be looked at surely.
