A free vote draws ever closer

8 Feb 2012

BBC's new figures cast doubts on effectiveness of hunting ban. Although the repeal of this ridiculous law is a must, maybe in these hard economic time,s, many people would not look favorably on this subject.
Figures obtained by BBC One's Sunday Politics programme in the Midlands reveal the number of prosecutions brought under the Hunting Act in our part of the country since it came into force in 2005.
Just one!
Our Freedom of Information request to the Crown Prosecution Service also reveals that the case in question involved not fox hunting, but hare coursing, in Warwickshire, six years ago.
The penalty imposed in this case is not clear, but breaches of the law can lead to a fine of up to £5,000 and the possible forfeiture of any dogs or vehicles involved in the offence.
Blair's biggest regret
Our findings are bound to cast fresh doubts on the effectiveness of a ban introduced only after an epic of public and Parliamentary angst during the early years of the Blair government.
After leaving office, the former Prime Minister wrote in his autobiography, The Journey, that the ban had been his biggest regret.
A traditional hunt in the days before the hunting ban came into operation
Far from putting a stop to this traditional country pursuit (sic), latest figures from the Countryside Alliance suggest more people are riding to hounds than before the ban on chasing down the fox came in!
But the League Against Cruel Sports tell us it still has public opinion on its side.
It commissioned an IPSOS-MORI poll in 2010 in which 76% of their 2,000 respondents supported the ban on fox hunting remaining in force, 18% wanted it repealed, with 6% undecided.
So what now for the government's pledge, enshrined in the Coalition Agreement, to allow MPs a free vote on the repeal of the Hunting Act before the next election?
The Masters of the Warwickshire Hunt tell us they are not expecting Parliament to reopen the question in the near future.
Some MPs believe the electorate would be unimpressed if undue Parliamentary time were devoted to this during a period when the House has more pressing challenges to contend with.

8 Feb 2012

I hope the ban stays, I hope it is enforced to the full letter of the law, I hope those laws are tightened.
I believe those that take any part in bloodsports of any description are worse than the animals they hunt and are pure scum
That is my view of the subject
Would I take part in the culling of animals for the good of the species, Yes and have done on many occasions.
The difference is that culling is done as humanely as possible, injured, infirm and older animals are targetted, and those doing the culling get no joy from the experience just satisfaction that thier actions have assisted the species/herd they are culling.

8 Feb 2012

Quote by MidsCouple24
I hope the ban stays, I hope it is enforced to the full letter of the law, I hope those laws are tightened.
(A) I believe those that take any part in bloodsports of any description are worse than the animals they hunt and are pure scum
That is my view of the subject
Would I take part in the culling of animals for the good of the species, Yes and have done on many occasions.
(B) The difference is that culling is done as humanely as possible, injured, infirm and older animals are targetted, and those doing the culling get no joy from the experience just satisfaction that thier actions have assisted the species/herd they are culling.

(A)You see, that is me, :sad: and I would disagree that I am scum lol

(B) Fox hunters kill humanely as possible, they target the infirm and older animals. And job satisfaction is also their motivation.

8 Feb 2012

Serious question Blue.
How do foxhunters target the old and infirm? Will the hounds not just chase any fox that's flushed out?

8 Feb 2012

Quote by Max777
Serious question Blue.
How do foxhunters target the old and infirm? Will the hounds not just chase any fox that's flushed out?

Yes they will follow the sent of all foxes, It is only in the very last part of the chase that the hounds will start to use sight to hunt rather than sent. The strongest healthiest foxes will always out-fox the hounds. Basically, it is as nature intended, natural selection, the healthiest, and fittest will service. Something no other form of control can copy or achieve. It is therefore the best method of fox control and the least cruel
Most times when a farmer suffers from a fox problem, it is more often than not due to an old/ill fox which has been displaced from it's natural hunting grounds by younger stronger foxes. In this situation the hunt can come in early in the morning and follow the sent of the troublesome fox from the place it has caused trouble. Again, this can not be replicated by any other method of fox control.

15 Feb 2012

all fox's should be killed. they outlawed hunting, then everyone was up in arms about people getting bitten by them in town and the mennace they cause. as a farmer, it makes my blood boil. if you saw the amount of chickens we have lost just so 1 fox can eat 1 chicken. and, yes we are totally free range, not just by gov guidelines which are cruel. let the country folk take care of foxes as they wish. i only have 5000 chix but boy, they will take 20 to eat 1

15 Feb 2012

Quote by NEEDFORFUN
all fox's should be killed. they outlawed hunting, then everyone was up in arms about people getting bitten by them in town and the mennace they cause. as a farmer, it makes my blood boil. if you saw the amount of chickens we have lost just so 1 fox can eat 1 chicken. and, yes we are totally free range, not just by gov guidelines which are cruel. let the country folk take care of foxes as they wish. i only have 5000 chix but boy, they will take 20 to eat 1

So shoot the foxes - there is no need to go gallumphing around the countryside on a horse to catch them. It was to be far more efficient in manpower (1 or 2 as opposed to about 30) and equipment (2 guns against 20 horses and god knows what else) to lie in wait and shoot them as they come. dunno

15 Feb 2012

Quote by foxylady2209
all fox's should be killed. they outlawed hunting, then everyone was up in arms about people getting bitten by them in town and the mennace they cause. as a farmer, it makes my blood boil. if you saw the amount of chickens we have lost just so 1 fox can eat 1 chicken. and, yes we are totally free range, not just by gov guidelines which are cruel. let the country folk take care of foxes as they wish. i only have 5000 chix but boy, they will take 20 to eat 1

So shoot the foxes - there is no need to go gallumphing around the countryside on a horse to catch them. It was to be far more efficient in manpower (1 or 2 as opposed to about 30) and equipment (2 guns against 20 horses and god knows what else) to lie in wait and shoot them as they come. dunno

Efficiency does not equate to animal welfare. The aim of population management should be to maintain healthy and balanced populations of wild mammals at levels which can be sustained by their local environment, and which are acceptable to farmers, landowners and the overall balance of all other wildlife. Hunting is by far the best method to do this.

15 Feb 2012

all fox's should be killed. they outlawed hunting, then everyone was up in arms about people getting bitten by them in town and the mennace they cause. as a farmer, it makes my blood boil. if you saw the amount of chickens we have lost just so 1 fox can eat 1 chicken. and, yes we are totally free range, not just by gov guidelines which are cruel. let the country folk take care of foxes as they wish. i only have 5000 chix but boy, they will take 20 to eat 1

You did of course know that putting shit loads of fox food in a convenient place was likely to attract predators with a killing pattern of that sort before you decided to try and make a living off fox food in a convenient place, didn't you?
Sorry, no sympathy. You make your living how you like, but don't expect me to approve of your extermination of predators at the top of a food chain that inconveniences that. Cost it in. If you can't cost it in, find another living. Farmers like you tried to eradicate Red Kites. I know what I'd rather see. I'll happily pay for the privelege, before you try and ask how I expect to be fed.

15 Feb 2012

Quote by neilinleeds
You did of course know that putting shit loads of fox food in a convenient place was likely to attract predators with a killing pattern of that sort before you decided to try and make a living off fox food in a convenient place, didn't you?
Sorry, no sympathy. You make your living how you like, but don't expect me to approve of your extermination of predators at the top of a food chain that inconveniences that. Cost it in. If you can't cost it in, find another living. Farmers like you tried to eradicate Red Kites. I know what I'd rather see. I'll happily pay for the privelege, before you try and ask how I expect to be fed.

:thumbup:
about as accurate as you can get.

15 Feb 2012

Quote by NEEDFORFUN
all fox's should be killed. they outlawed hunting, then everyone was up in arms about people getting bitten by them in town and the mennace they cause. as a farmer, it makes my blood boil. if you saw the amount of chickens we have lost just so 1 fox can eat 1 chicken. and, yes we are totally free range, not just by gov guidelines which are cruel. let the country folk take care of foxes as they wish. i only have 5000 chix but boy, they will take 20 to eat 1

above you say you are a farmer ??? in the other thread...you wrote
NEEDFORFUN wrote:
won't have that at all. i was secondary educated but there is no way on earth that stacks up. two of my sons are now restuarant owners, the other is a lawyer. i am a sucsessfull engineer in the hydraulics trade. all secondary. go figure. maybe you just want us kept down but some of us are not as thick as you think
but here you are an engineer in hydraulics trade ??
So which is it....Farmer or Engineer in Hydrailics ????....now what did you say about using the correct facts in another thread !!!!!

15 Feb 2012

:laughabove:
maybe he is a farmer that fixes the hydraulics on his tractors dunno

16 Feb 2012

Quote by MidsCouple24
I hope the ban stays, I hope it is enforced to the full letter of the law, I hope those laws are tightened.
I believe those that take any part in bloodsports of any description are worse than the animals they hunt and are pure scum
That is my view of the subject
Would I take part in the culling of animals for the good of the species, Yes and have done on many occasions.
The difference is that culling is done as humanely as possible, injured, infirm and older animals are targetted, and those doing the culling get no joy from the experience just satisfaction that thier actions have assisted the species/herd they are culling.

Well said :thumbup:

16 Feb 2012

Quote by nellie-mwgc
I hope the ban stays, I hope it is enforced to the full letter of the law, I hope those laws are tightened.
I believe those that take any part in bloodsports of any description are worse than the animals they hunt and are pure scum
That is my view of the subject
Would I take part in the culling of animals for the good of the species, Yes and have done on many occasions.

The difference is that culling is done as humanely as possible, injured, infirm and older animals are targetted, and those doing the culling get no joy from the experience just satisfaction that thier actions have assisted the species/herd they are culling.

Well said :thumbup:
Hunting does all this better than any other method, and hunting staff get the same job satisfaction as any other pest control person. :thumbup:

16 Feb 2012

Quote by neilinleeds
all fox's should be killed. they outlawed hunting, then everyone was up in arms about people getting bitten by them in town and the mennace they cause. as a farmer, it makes my blood boil. if you saw the amount of chickens we have lost just so 1 fox can eat 1 chicken. and, yes we are totally free range, not just by gov guidelines which are cruel. let the country folk take care of foxes as they wish. i only have 5000 chix but boy, they will take 20 to eat 1

You did of course know that putting shit loads of fox food in a convenient place was likely to attract predators with a killing pattern of that sort before you decided to try and make a living off fox food in a convenient place, didn't you?
Sorry, no sympathy. You make your living how you like, but don't expect me to approve of your extermination of predators at the top of a food chain that inconveniences that. Cost it in. If you can't cost it in, find another living. Farmers like you tried to eradicate Red Kites. I know what I'd rather see. I'll happily pay for the privelege, before you try and ask how I expect to be fed.
Dont think he was looking for your approval dunno

16 Feb 2012

In my mind there is a distinction between culling and sport.
Attempts to justify blood sports in the name of culling are just bullshit.

16 Feb 2012

Quote by Ben_Minx
In my mind there is a distinction between culling and sport.
Attempts to justify blood sports in the name of culling are just bullshit.

To the man doing the job, he is providing a service in culling
Too the outsider, it can be seen as a blood sport
Please explain that distinction that you believe you see
Hunting with hounds is both selective and non-wounding, show me another method that can fulfill both these criteria 100%.

16 Feb 2012

Quote by deancannock
all fox's should be killed. they outlawed hunting, then everyone was up in arms about people getting bitten by them in town and the mennace they cause. as a farmer, it makes my blood boil. if you saw the amount of chickens we have lost just so 1 fox can eat 1 chicken. and, yes we are totally free range, not just by gov guidelines which are cruel. let the country folk take care of foxes as they wish. i only have 5000 chix but boy, they will take 20 to eat 1

above you say you are a farmer ??? in the other thread...you wrote
NEEDFORFUN wrote:
won't have that at all. i was secondary educated but there is no way on earth that stacks up. two of my sons are now restuarant owners, the other is a lawyer. i am a sucsessfull engineer in the hydraulics trade. all secondary. go figure. maybe you just want us kept down but some of us are not as thick as you think
but here you are an engineer in hydraulics trade ??
So which is it....Farmer or Engineer in Hydrailics ????....now what did you say about using the correct facts in another thread !!!!!
Can one not do both then, I know plenty of small holders who hold down other jobs. Most have to too make ends meet

16 Feb 2012

A sport is something people do for fun.
Culling is the necessary destruction of some animals for the welfare of other animals or people.
The two are not connected in any way. Its a bit like not employing a serial killer as a hangman. Some jobs simply are not there to be enjoyed.
Once you make that massive leap of imagination, the pro hunt lobby arguments are ridiculous.
I do wonder why the clarion call of the fox hunting sport fans is that they kill off the old or weak. If you have an overpopulation of foxes surely you want to kill of the younger fitter foxes who are more likely to reproduce.

16 Feb 2012

Quote by Ben_Minx
A sport is something people do for fun.
Culling is the necessary destruction of some animals for the welfare of other animals or people.
The two are not connected in any way. Its a bit like not employing a serial killer as a hangman. Some jobs simply are not there to be enjoyed.
Once you make that massive leap of imagination, the pro hunt lobby arguments are ridiculous.
I do wonder why the clarion call of the fox hunting sport fans is that they kill off the old or weak. If you have an overpopulation of foxes surely you want to kill of the younger fitter foxes who are more likely to reproduce.

Wrong on so many levels ben, How can you make the assumption that a huntsman is doing his job for fun rather than for animal welfare, I am totally confused by this assumption. His job, just like any other person culling animals, is a job, how can we measure the level of his job satisfaction. How can you say he is doing it for fun, rather than job satisfaction?
You mention culling; The important difference between “pest control” and “wildlife management, is the former seeks to reduce or even eradicate populations, while the latter aims to maintain populations at a sustainable levels that are in balance with other wildlife populations and human interests.
The facts with the old and week are this ben; It is the old and week foxes that cause most trouble with farmers stock. Foxes have territory's that they hunt. Like most wild animals, country foxes prefer to keep away from man, therefor, hunt its natural prey, in the countryside. It is when foxes become old and week, and are pushed out of their territory by younger fitter foxes, that they become hungry and desperate and then forced to hunt area's where farmers keep stock.
It is not a massive leap of imagination, that is all factual. I do my utmost to stick to the facts, and remain away from emotion.
As I stated above, Hunting with hounds is both selective and non-wounding, show me another method that can fulfill both these criteria 100%.

16 Feb 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009
all fox's should be killed. they outlawed hunting, then everyone was up in arms about people getting bitten by them in town and the mennace they cause. as a farmer, it makes my blood boil. if you saw the amount of chickens we have lost just so 1 fox can eat 1 chicken. and, yes we are totally free range, not just by gov guidelines which are cruel. let the country folk take care of foxes as they wish. i only have 5000 chix but boy, they will take 20 to eat 1

above you say you are a farmer ??? in the other thread...you wrote
NEEDFORFUN wrote:
won't have that at all. i was secondary educated but there is no way on earth that stacks up. two of my sons are now restuarant owners, the other is a lawyer. i am a sucsessfull engineer in the hydraulics trade. all secondary. go figure. maybe you just want us kept down but some of us are not as thick as you think
but here you are an engineer in hydraulics trade ??
So which is it....Farmer or Engineer in Hydrailics ????....now what did you say about using the correct facts in another thread !!!!!
Can one not do both then, I know plenty of small holders who hold down other jobs. Most have to too make ends meet
sure you could....but his words is he is a successful enginneer in Hydraulics trade !!! he does not say he is a Hydraulic engineer in the farming trade !!! Also comments he has 5000 chickens...hardly a small holding. There again thats if he is a farmer and not a successful hydraulic enginner !!!!!!!!! dunno

16 Feb 2012

Quote by deancannock

Can one not do both then, I know plenty of small holders who hold down other jobs. Most have to too make ends meet

sure you could....but his words is he is a successful enginneer in Hydraulics trade !!! he does not say he is a Hydraulic engineer in the farming trade !!! Also comments he has 5000 chickens...hardly a small holding. There again thats if he is a farmer and not a successful hydraulic enginner !!!!!!!!! dunno

I of coarse can not confirm what he does, but, to me, what he has said is quite possible. People are all very quick to shoot other people down.
I know a game keeper who rears approx 80,000 pheasant polts each year, he also works as an electrician.

16 Feb 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009
Wrong on so many levels ben, How can you make the assumption that a huntsman is doing his job for fun rather than for animal welfare, I am totally confused by this assumption. His job, just like any other person culling animals, is a job, how can we measure the level of his job satisfaction. How can you say he is doing it for fun, rather than job satisfaction?
You mention culling; The important difference between “pest control” and “wildlife management, is the former seeks to reduce or even eradicate populations, while the latter aims to maintain populations at a sustainable levels that are in balance with other wildlife populations and human interests.
The facts with the old and week are this ben; It is the old and week foxes that cause most trouble with farmers stock. Foxes have territory's that they hunt. Like most wild animals, country foxes prefer to keep away from man, therefor, hunt its natural prey, in the countryside. It is when foxes become old and week, and are pushed out of their territory by younger fitter foxes, that they become hungry and desperate and then forced to hunt area's where farmers keep stock.
It is not a massive leap of imagination, that is all factual. I do my utmost to stick to the facts, and remain away from emotion.
As I stated above, Hunting with hounds is both selective and non-wounding, show me another method that can fulfill both these criteria 100%.

I think its ridiculous to suggest that the chaps chasing foxes all over my brotehrs farm and pretending they are chasing a scented trail are NOT doing it for fun.
If the old and weak foxes are the big problem surely they can be killed or trapped at the places they kill rather than chased across the countryside on horseback. When you think of the cost of such pursuits I am amazed man cant think of a better cheaper method.
Of course with my cynical head on I could say its because the problem isnt as big as it is made out and the pro hunt sport lobby have no interest in achieving the stated goal.

16 Feb 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009
I hope the ban stays, I hope it is enforced to the full letter of the law, I hope those laws are tightened.
I believe those that take any part in bloodsports of any description are worse than the animals they hunt and are pure scum
That is my view of the subject
Would I take part in the culling of animals for the good of the species, Yes and have done on many occasions.

The difference is that culling is done as humanely as possible, injured, infirm and older animals are targetted, and those doing the culling get no joy from the experience just satisfaction that thier actions have assisted the species/herd they are culling.

Well said :thumbup:
Hunting does all this better than any other method, and hunting staff get the same job satisfaction as any other pest control person. :thumbup:
People go hunting for fun though and thats the horrible part of it, personally i dont think its fun chasing a fox until its exhausted and then let the dogs rip it to shreds but then thats just my opinion, im a soft person who cant stand humans inflicting cruelty on animals, and no one will ever make me change my mind at all, many have tried ... i have spend many years activly suporting the hunting ban

16 Feb 2012

Quote by Ben_Minx
(1) I think its ridiculous to suggest that the chaps chasing foxes all over my brotehrs farm and pretending they are chasing a scented trail are NOT doing it for fun.
(2)If the old and weak foxes are the big problem surely they can be killed or trapped at the places they kill rather than chased across the countryside on horseback. When you think of the cost of such pursuits I am amazed man cant think of a better cheaper method.
(3)Of course with my cynical head on I could say its because the problem isnt as big as it is made out and the pro hunt sport lobby have no interest in achieving the stated goal.

(1) I think it is ridiculous that you presume he is doing it for fun. If you brother does not like it, dont let them on the farm dunno

It is a presumption, not based in any fact.
(2) Trapping would not be selective and never could be. Hunting with a pack of hounds has
much in common with the method employed by a pack of wolves. Hunting with hounds can
therefore be regarded as a natural phenomenon and this selective animal to animal interaction uniquely distinguishes hunting with hounds from all other methods. Hunting with hounds is entirely natural to the fox since it does not use any alien or human technology for which the hunted animal has no natural defense. I do not understand the relevance of cost, what the cost has to do with animal welfare I do not know.
(3) Again nothing based in fact, just assumption on your part. I am confused by what you may think their goal is? The hunts do achieve their goal. There goal is "Wildlife management", and they achieve this very well.
There are 3 advantages hunting offers to the health and fitness of populations. A closed season, dispersal and uniquely a countrywide selective, search and dispatch function. There is no other method that can replicate this, or even come close. Shooting, trapping do not observe a close season.

16 Feb 2012

Quote by nellie-mwgc
People go hunting for fun though and thats the horrible part of it, personally i dont think its fun chasing a fox until its exhausted and then let the dogs rip it to shreds but then thats just my opinion, im a soft person who cant stand humans inflicting cruelty on animals, and no one will ever make me change my mind at all, many have tried ... i have spend many years activly suporting the hunting ban

Hunt staff go hunting for wildlife management. Not for fun. You place human emotion into the animal kingdom. There are not, and never were, any scientific grounds for banning hunting with hounds on the grounds of cruelty. I am not looking to change your mind, or any one else s, just debating the facts. I have spent my whole life actively supporting hunting, as it is the best way for the fox population.

16 Feb 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009

People go hunting for fun though and thats the horrible part of it, personally i dont think its fun chasing a fox until its exhausted and then let the dogs rip it to shreds but then thats just my opinion, im a soft person who cant stand humans inflicting cruelty on animals, and no one will ever make me change my mind at all, many have tried ... i have spend many years activly suporting the hunting ban

Hunt staff go hunting for wildlife management. Not for fun. You place human emotion into the animal kingdom. There are not, and never were, any scientific grounds for banning hunting with hounds on the grounds of cruelty. I am not looking to change your mind, or any one else s, just debating the facts. I have spent my whole life actively supporting hunting, as it is the best way for the fox population.
Why does it need so many people on horses then ?
They always look as if they are enjoying it !
I still dont understand why a load of people on horses need to chase an exhausted fox across countryside and then rip it to shreds ... i would have though there were other ways of keeping the fox population under control smile

16 Feb 2012

Quote by nellie-mwgc

People go hunting for fun though and thats the horrible part of it, personally i dont think its fun chasing a fox until its exhausted and then let the dogs rip it to shreds but then thats just my opinion, im a soft person who cant stand humans inflicting cruelty on animals, and no one will ever make me change my mind at all, many have tried ... i have spend many years activly suporting the hunting ban

Hunt staff go hunting for wildlife management. Not for fun. You place human emotion into the animal kingdom. There are not, and never were, any scientific grounds for banning hunting with hounds on the grounds of cruelty. I am not looking to change your mind, or any one else s, just debating the facts. I have spent my whole life actively supporting hunting, as it is the best way for the fox population.
Why does it need so many people on horses then ?
They always look as if they are enjoying it !
I still dont understand why a load of people on horses need to chase an exhausted fox across countryside and then rip it to shreds ... i would have though there were other ways of keeping the fox population under control smile

Why does it need so many people on horses then ?
There is only a small handful of mounted hunt staff. The rest are members of the public out for a ride on there horse. This is how the hunts pay for the wonderful service they provide to so many.
They always look as if they are enjoying it !
I would imagine, as I have stated already that I am sure they have an amount of job satisfaction, just like a staff in any job, lets say an abattoir .... Or are you confused by the followers?
I still dont understand why a load of people on horses need to chase an exhausted fox across countryside and then rip it to shreds ... i would have though there were other ways of keeping the fox population under control
Natural selection, the best method of fox control :thumbup:

16 Feb 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009
..... snipped.....
Why does it need so many people on horses then ?
There is only a small handful of mounted hunt staff. The rest are members of the public out for a ride on there horse. This is how the hunts pay for the wonderful service they provide to so many.
They always look as if they are enjoying it !
I would imagine, as I have stated already that I am sure they have an amount of job satisfaction, just like a staff in any job, lets say an abattoir .... Or are you confused by the followers?
I still dont understand why a load of people on horses need to chase an exhausted fox across countryside and then rip it to shreds ... i would have though there were other ways of keeping the fox population under control
Natural selection, the best method of fox control :thumbup:

Unbelievable that in 2012 we have people trying to justify the hunting and barbaric killing of animals for fun. If the hunt wasn't fun - who would give a shit if it was banned or not?

16 Feb 2012

Quote by Too Hot
..... snipped.....
Why does it need so many people on horses then ?
There is only a small handful of mounted hunt staff. The rest are members of the public out for a ride on there horse. This is how the hunts pay for the wonderful service they provide to so many.
They always look as if they are enjoying it !
I would imagine, as I have stated already that I am sure they have an amount of job satisfaction, just like a staff in any job, lets say an abattoir .... Or are you confused by the followers?
I still dont understand why a load of people on horses need to chase an exhausted fox across countryside and then rip it to shreds ... i would have though there were other ways of keeping the fox population under control
Natural selection, the best method of fox control :thumbup:

Unbelievable that in 2012 we have people trying to justify the hunting and barbaric killing of animals for fun. If the hunt wasn't fun - who would give a shit if it was banned or not?
but not only is it an institution and a great loss to the British countrysides way of life, its part of the countrysides heritage
we have ran motorways and rail lines through peoples lively hoods,then a bunch of townies who know nothing of the ways of the country then decide we know whats best for it and the lively hoods of everyone involved with the hunts
i don't see racing pigeons or greyhound racing banned even though it just for sport/fun and over 20 greyhounds are put down every week in the UK and I'm not seeing the grand national being banned anytime soon, or any other sport involving animals suffering week in week out
i despair at the double standards banded about