I heard this topic on the radio today - "they" are now saying that alcohol is a far more damaging drug to humankind that heroin. Are we seeing the beginning of the same "witch-hunt" tactics that have been used in recent years to quell smoking? I, for one, fervently hope so. Alcohol is a nasty and dangerous drug, harming not only the user, but others as well. Street violence, teen pregnancies, anti-social behaviour, organised crime and road-deaths are just a few of the potential problems that are fuelled by this state-licensed drug. Not to mention the huge cost to the NHS of treating alcohol users and addicts. If you cannot say in all honesty that you could give up booze straight away, then you are an addict. Certain measures have been suggested ie Tripling tax on alcoholic based beverages. Increasing the legal age of purchase to 25. Introducing a legal maximum limit of alcohol content (approx 2% for beers, 15% for spirits). Introducing an "alcohol insurance" (charging people directly for attendance in A&E depts who are "under the influence"). Your thoughts please!
Quote by ForestFunsters I heard this topic on the radio today - "they" are now saying that alcohol is a far more damaging drug to humankind that heroin. Are we seeing the beginning of the same "witch-hunt" tactics that have been used in recent years to quell smoking? I, for one, fervently hope so. Alcohol is a nasty and dangerous drug, harming not only the user, but others as well. Street violence, teen pregnancies, anti-social behaviour, organised crime and road-deaths are just a few of the potential problems that are fuelled by this state-licensed drug. Not to mention the huge cost to the NHS of treating alcohol users and addicts. If you cannot say in all honesty that you could give up booze straight away, then you are an addict. Certain measures have been suggested ie Tripling tax on alcoholic based beverages. Increasing the legal age of purchase to 25. Introducing a legal maximum limit of alcohol content (approx 2% for beers, 15% for spirits). Introducing an "alcohol insurance" (charging people directly for attendance in A&E depts who are "under the influence"). Your thoughts please!
but if they are saying a glass of rew wine every so often is good for you... wouldn't it be like everthing else... everything in moderatation.... remember that they already have safety guidelines with are 14 units a week for women and 21 units for men.... and it tends to be more of a british binge drinking culture... rather than on the continent when families introduce alcohol to children at a younger age and tend to be more sensible with it
and as long as the government is claiming levies on alcohol, then it will be relatively easy to purchase, therefore there isnt the social stigma that heroin has
As far as I can see this is another Blair/Brown money making scheme. It's like a witch hunt, recycle this recycle that, good for the environment. How can my recycling a plastic bottle make any difference when China, India and the good old US OF A is spewing out so called green house gases. I don't smoke and don't like being around smoke but each to his own.........your choice.........yep YOUR choice. If this government is so intent on reducing greenhouse gases(no conclusive scientific evidence that greenhouse gases are damaging the planet) why have they not done anything to reduce the number of buses spewing out diesel fumes on Britains roads ? Naa will never happen as long as me and you are easy targets.......... Just my thoughts comrade.
Quote by MrFC . If this government is so intent on reducing greenhouse gases(no conclusive scientific evidence that greenhouse gases are damaging the planet) why have they not done anything to reduce the number of buses spewing out diesel fumes on Britains roads ?
They have.............. They have hammered the private motorist to compensate
Quote by ForestFunsters I heard this topic on the radio today - "they" are now saying that alcohol is a far more damaging drug to humankind that heroin. Are we seeing the beginning of the same "witch-hunt" tactics that have been used in recent years to quell smoking? I, for one, fervently hope so. Alcohol is a nasty and dangerous drug, harming not only the user, but others as well. Street violence, teen pregnancies, anti-social behaviour, organised crime and road-deaths are just a few of the potential problems that are fuelled by this state-licensed drug. Not to mention the huge cost to the NHS of treating alcohol users and addicts. If you cannot say in all honesty that you could give up booze straight away, then you are an addict. Certain measures have been suggested ie Tripling tax on alcoholic based beverages. Increasing the legal age of purchase to 25. Introducing a legal maximum limit of alcohol content (approx 2% for beers, 15% for spirits). Introducing an "alcohol insurance" (charging people directly for attendance in A&E depts who are "under the influence"). Your thoughts please!
I have so much to say on this subject, but I will have to come back to it. My main point will be that there are far more crimes committed as a result of heroin addiction as opposed to booze addiction. "Street violence, teen pregnancies, anti-social behaviour, organised crime and road-deaths are just a few of the potential problems that are fuelled by this state-licensed drug", while I agree that drink plays a part in these problems, do you really think heroin/cocaine/marijuana etc doesn't? It's a fine line and I believe this topic is worthy of a good debate here but there are rules.
Interested to read your views. I'll just butt in to say that banning things, or trying to tax them off the streets hasn't really been a success so far has it ? Tax away - I can brew whatever beer I like, or make whatever wine I like from fruit juice, yeast and sugar. Distilling isn't too difficult either, if you can read. It always strikes me as A about T to treat the inert substance as the problem - maybe we should take a good look at our society, and try and fix that. There are loads of other countries that have just as much access to alcohol as we do, and they don't have anywhere near the issues we do. Do you think there may be a whisper of a clue in there ?
Alcohol - worse than heroin? Heroin kills quicker, its illegal, junkies can cause big problems in order to feed the habit, stealing dealing and worse. Alcohol is enjoyed by many and is legal, but like anything some go to far, as I'm sure, the chatroom Ops have a lot of experience of, too much alchohol and people act irrationally, the too much effect and bad things happen. Then there's the habitual user aka alchoholic, side effects including, always being bad tempered and the facility to do things that a normal person wouldn't. So while one thing is legal and the other isn't both are harmful. But, heroin is highly addictive, I've never tried it and have no intention to, but from what I've read, try it once and you are hooked, so in my opinion it is this that makes it more dangerous than alchohol. The fact that more people get hooked on alchohol than heroin does not make it worse, its probably easier to give up alchohol than heroin in most cases.
Quote by st3v3 Alcohol - worse than heroin? But, heroin is highly addictive, I've never tried it and have no intention to, but from what I've read, try it once and you are hooked, so in my opinion it is this that makes it more dangerous than alchohol.
Not true.
The fact that more people get hooked on alchohol than heroin does not make it worse, its probably easier to give up alchohol than heroin in most cases.
In the 1950s, when you could buy heroin, morphine, cannabis, cocaine, and any other drug you wanted from a chemist, with no prescription, the Met Polices "drugs squad" was 2 officers. And people who used heroin were quite capable of working for a living - you'd never know they used, unless they told you. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating anyone take anything (being a father means a responsible POV). However IMHO ignorance is worse than knowledge.
Quote by st3v3 Alcohol - worse than heroin? But, heroin is highly addictive, I've never tried it and have no intention to, but from what I've read, try it once and you are hooked, so in my opinion it is this that makes it more dangerous than alchohol.
Quote by Mallock2006 Alcohol - worse than heroin? But, heroin is highly addictive, I've never tried it and have no intention to, but from what I've read, try it once and you are hooked, so in my opinion it is this that makes it more dangerous than alchohol.
Quote by JandJ Not true.
Says who Someone who had to nurse their fiance through a crippling back injury that only responded to diamorphine. I can certainly tell you that "try it once and you're hooked" is somewhat wide of the mark. Use it carefully, and you won't get hooked. That was what the doctor told us when we were refusing to use it because of the connotations. In the end the pain was so bad we had no choice. Luckily the diamorphine helped ease the pain enough for the injury to start to heal and my fiance was weaned off quite quickly. If you want to know about addictive drugs, look at benzodiazepeines (of which Valium is one). They really are addictive. And, unlike heroin, there is no accepted withdrawal protocol. Once you're on them, you're on them for good.
Quote by JandJ Alcohol - worse than heroin? But, heroin is highly addictive, I've never tried it and have no intention to, but from what I've read, try it once and you are hooked, so in my opinion it is this that makes it more dangerous than alchohol.
Quote by JandJ Not true.
Says who Someone who had to nurse their fiance through a crippling back injury that only responded to diamorphine. I can certainly tell you that "try it once and you're hooked" is somewhat wide of the mark. Use it carefully, and you won't get hooked. That was what the doctor told us when we were refusing to use it because of the connotations. In the end the pain was so bad we had no choice. Luckily the diamorphine helped ease the pain enough for the injury to start to heal and my fiance was weaned off quite quickly. If you want to know about addictive drugs, look at benzodiazepeines (of which Valium is one). They really are addictive. And, unlike heroin, there is no accepted withdrawal protocol. Once you're on them, you're on them for good. Having used morphine myself I can say for certain that I craved the morphine far more than I do alcohol.....
Quote by JandJ If you want to know about addictive drugs, look at benzodiazepeines (of which Valium is one). They really are addictive. And, unlike heroin, there is no accepted withdrawal protocol. Once you're on them, you're on them for good.
And that is quite scary when you think about it.... It is one of the reasons why I considered very carefully which anti-depressant I was prescribed.... I wanted to ensure that I was not on one that was addictive...
Quote by Mallock2006 Having used morphine myself I can say for certain that I craved the morphine far more than I do alcohol.....
When I was prescribed Morphine it did nothing for me in the way of pain relief I cant help but wonder if different people are more suseptable (sp?) to different drugs.... Be they alcohol, tablets or other forms of drugs
i work with class a drug users who commit crime. in my experience, crimes are commited more often when under the influence of alcohol or benzo's. especially benzos actually. in my experience, alcohol is more physically and emotionally damaging than heroin. in my experience, i have had to handle potentially violent situations with clients who are drunk, never with clients who are feeling warm and fuzzy or sick from withdrawals. in my experience i have seen heroin users enter methadone/subutex treatment, stabilise, detox and stay clean, i have yet to experience a drinker stay dry following detox. in my experience there is a massive shortfall in funding for alcohol specialist workers within community drug and alcohol teams. all just in my experience of course, id rather not get into any kind of moral debate, as i know im not going to change general societies ill informed view that all drug users are scum i just thought i would add some of my experiences as i work in the field.
alcohol worse NO! but does have its bad points, and i can say that from experiance. But as has been said its all about moderation, we have a bad culture in this country that needs to changed not taxed to the hilt. Theres another thread running about sex addiction and how bad it is for you and your relationships are they going to ban that too. You also have to look to the press about this, they sit on stories that have a good impact and publish them when they feel is going to give them the most exposure and or finacial gain. so yes its bad, yes it needs more funding, but how about spending some money into looking at why we have the highest working hours in europe, and people then use drink as a way of swithing off.
Quote by Mallock2006 Alcohol - worse than heroin? But, heroin is highly addictive, I've never tried it and have no intention to, but from what I've read, try it once and you are hooked, so in my opinion it is this that makes it more dangerous than alchohol.
Quote by JandJ Not true.
Says who Im sure everyone knows that south London is rife with drugs and drug addicts. I do know people that have tried heroin once and have not become addicted but i also know someone who has been addicted to it for over 10 years. Hes in and out of prison for commiting crimes to fuel his drug habit. His family/health has been ruined, but likewise I also know an alcoholic, he may not commit crimes to feed his addiction but his family/health has been ruined all the same. So I think that alcohol can be just as dangerous to somepeople. Louise xx
Quote by fabio but if they are saying a glass of rew wine every so often is good for you... wouldn't it be like everthing else... everything in moderatation.... remember that they already have safety guidelines with are 14 units a week for women and 21 units for men.... and it tends to be more of a british binge drinking culture... rather than on the continent when families introduce alcohol to children at a younger age and tend to be more sensible with it
I'd agree with that. The drinking culture is very much british -although the States is very similar in there are a lot of alcoholics and a lot more spirit drinkers and they have an age limit of 21. The lifestyle on the continent seems to be more successful. Teenagers are introduced to alcohol by having a glass of wine with a meal. I've seen soft drink vending machines in spain and portugal in shopping malls & street that also dispense cans of beer and you don't see groups of teenagers drinking cans of beers and getting drunk.
isnt it funny i woke up the other morning ( about 3 days ago ) and i stoped smoking :shock: havent had a fag for three days now but the realy funny thing is im goin right off booz too :shock: i now drink ones a week at home . where once i would have a bottle of whisky now im only getting half a bottle and i dont finnish that :shock: i now feel that geting drunk in public is somehow degrading , thats how i feel :? although i wouldnt say they should ban alcohol i can see where everyone is comeing from on this one . if taken sencibley it can be a good thing but if abused it becomes very dangerus just my opinion :wink:
Quote by JandJ Interested to read your views. I'll just butt in to say that banning things, or trying to tax them off the streets hasn't really been a success so far has it ? Tax away - I can brew whatever beer I like, or make whatever wine I like from fruit juice, yeast and sugar. Distilling isn't too difficult either, if you can read. It always strikes me as A about T to treat the inert substance as the problem - maybe we should take a good look at our society, and try and fix that. There are loads of other countries that have just as much access to alcohol as we do, and they don't have anywhere near the issues we do. Do you think there may be a whisper of a clue in there ?
:thumbup: Why do people feel such a need to escape from their reality? I feel the means of doing this is less important than the reason people feel they need to. Could the report be saying that alcohol is more damaging simply on a numbers basis? It is clearly far more widely available & socially acceptable- therefore yes, probably more of a threat in that respect.
Off on one of my rambles now, so just skip this post Alcohol worse than Heroin? It could be and it depends on the society at that time in history. We had a problem in this country in the 1800's with alcohol. It was called the Gin Craze. This was when it was predicted that per population head the average person drank 2.2 gallons of Gin a year (Gallon= 8 pints). It was estimated that about 30-40% of the population was hooked on it. This resulted in crime to fuel the need to get their next drink. Part of this crime involved a thing called roasting (not what you lot are thinking ). It was when people were held over fires until they told people where they hid their money. These were organised gangs (but not in the sense of organised crime now-a-days). This craze died out........and not because of legislation or morals but because the food prices went up so much that people did not have the money to spare. Later on the Americans tried to do something about drinking in their country. They put in the Prohibition. This is where the organised crime got their hands on it all and we all know the details of the likes of Chicago and all that. Also in the 50's, as someone else pointed out, this country had a medicine that was based on herion......it think it was called Lourdinum or something like that. In Norfolk you would see the population visit the pharmacist on payday for their bottle and this would allow them to work the fields for the rest of the week. Why did they do this? Usually because their jobs brought on arthritus (spelt wrong but some medical person will correct it for me) and this eased the pain. This addiction didn't bring in crime because it was retailed at reasonable prices and the police prefered the users as they were more "docile" than the people who were drinking. Drinkers were more violent So what is all this about? In my mind, it is not the drug or narcotic that is the problem but how it is retailed. If you price something out then crime usually rears its head into an organised unit that allows crime to florish. Just to point out..........I am not advocating narcotics over drinking. I do not take narcotics, I drink little but smoke like a chimney. Dave_Notts
Quote by BiWelshMinx I have so much to say on this subject, but I will have to come back to it. My main point will be that there are far more crimes committed as a result of heroin addiction as opposed to booze addiction.
That may be the case when it comes to addiction, but when it just involves alcohol its a totally different matter, for instance 65% of police resources are taken up by alcohol related crimes especially over weekends, most are violent but nethertheless police time is wasted, the same goes for our nhs especially at any A&E at any given weekend the staff are run off there feet by alcohol related incidents, most hoodlums that hang around shop doorways across Britain usually have a bottle of cheap wine in hand screaming abuse at passers by or worse, so yes we do have a problem with alcohol and something should be done about it, cigarettes went up 11p a packet and people will argue so they should because of the recourses they use and if that’s the case then why did a pint of beer only go up 1p and spirits frozen when statistics show clearly that it costs the police and nhs combined more money than smokers will ever cost the nhs, your also less likely to be assaulted by a chain smoker than you are with someone who’s just came out the pub after drinking 12 pints.
Alcohol is legal to buy over the age of 18, heroin is not. It is true alcohol can kill people but heroin is by far more lethal. Doctors say, a little of what you fancy (alcohol wise) will not do you any harm - I've yet to hear them say that about heroin.
Quote by jaymar Alcohol is legal to buy over the age of 18, heroin is not. It is true alcohol can kill people but heroin is by far more lethal. Doctors say, a little of what you fancy (alcohol wise) will not do you any harm - I've yet to hear them say that about heroin.
of course doctors are not going to say that about heroin, its illegal. actually, i work with specialist doctors who would say that. i believe the same applies though. in terms of physical effects, i believe that heroin is not more lethal than alcohol. physical detriment in heroin users is generally down to associated factors (the who how why where and when of drug taking), the cycle of addiction in itself, bad injecting practices, badly adulterated gear, poor hygiene, homelessness, the persons lifestyle and so on, rather than the drug itself which does little direct and long term damage to your body. in my opinion, a regular dose of heroin, administered correctly, in a healthy individual who has the means to stay housed, healthy etc will not cause physical damage. alcohol on the other hand is associated with Korsakoff's, long term damage to the brain and nervous system, liver disease, myopothy, loss in bone mass, pancreatitis, high blood pressure leading to strokes, heart failiure and certain vitamin deficiencies. that is, excessive drinking over time of course. a glass of wine a day? the doctors say it wont do you any harm.
in my opinion, not true. yes a person can overdose on heoin and die but apart from that heroin itself does not kill more quickly than alcohol. there are more alcohol illness related deaths per year than drug overdoses, as far as im aware.
Quote by st3v3 its probably easier to give up alchohol than heroin in most cases.
again, in my opinion, not true. for many reasons. alcohol is readily available and its is easier to relapse in those circumstances. also when withdrawing, an alcoholic is prone to fatal siezures, couple that with deteriorated health and you have a very uncomfortable time.
Heroin is an insiduous and nasty drug that ruins the life of almost everyone who touches it. Alcohol can ruin your life if you get addicted to it, but it's a lot easier to get addicted to heroin and even trying it once to see what it is like is a really stupid idea, in my opinion. But alcohol has, without a doubt, cuased far more trouble than heroin - for the simple reason that it is a lot more accessable and almost everyone over 18 has tried it and been intoxicated by it. There are more alcoholics than heroin addicts, and alcoholism is a really horrible disease, too, and every bit as lethal. It's just that it is possible to enjoy alcohol in moderation - not so with heroin.
Quote by Gothic-punk It's just that it is possible to enjoy alcohol in moderation - not so with heroin.
I work with, on a daily basis, those who enjoy heroin recreationally and in moderation. They hold down full time responsible jobs... they work in others' homes. They work in supportive roles in the community etc etc. Heroin is used by a fair cross section of society. I have seen every profession. the main 'problem' with heroin (in my opinion) is the media representation of it, also the cost which leads to other, social, problems. As for alcohol, it costs society more in everyway. The true issue is the facts and figures are not presented to the media machine as, to curtail alcohol use would cost far more, as it is legal. Heroin and other illicit drugs are easier and cheaper to villify and act against. splendid
Quote by Mallock2006 Alcohol - worse than heroin? But, heroin is highly addictive, I've never tried it and have no intention to, but from what I've read, try it once and you are hooked, so in my opinion it is this that makes it more dangerous than alchohol.
Quote by JandJ Not true.
Says who In their pure form alcohol will probably be lethal in extremly small doses, where as heroin can be taken quite safely on a daily basis. The main problem surrounding it is the fact it is illegal and therefore controlled by the less savoury members of the planet. Many of the health issues associated with heroin are from the crap that gets cut into it to increase profits, including brick dust and rat poison. The diminishing high often bought about from using an unregulated strength and dose can help increase the dependency to it and as it's illegal addicts have little choice but to turn to crime to fund it. this is all hyped by the media to sell more shitsheets. Is it more dangerous than booze? probably not, but then that is a government sanctioned, tax liable drug with a multi billion pound worldwide industry behind it. Neither are worth getting addicted to but don't be naieve enough to believe what you're told in the media- the truth is out there
Quote by sercher01 isnt it funny i woke up the other morning ( about 3 days ago ) and i stoped smoking :shock: havent had a fag for three days now but the realy funny thing is im goin right off booz too :shock: i now drink ones a week at home . where once i would have a bottle of whisky now im only getting half a bottle and i dont finnish that :shock: i now feel that geting drunk in public is somehow degrading , thats how i feel :? although i wouldnt say they should ban alcohol i can see where everyone is comeing from on this one . if taken sencibley it can be a good thing but if abused it becomes very dangerus just my opinion :wink:
hasnt improved your spelling though
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). It was when people were held over fires until they told people where they hid their money. These were organised gangs (but not in the sense of organised crime now-a-days). This craze died out........and not because of legislation or morals but because the food prices went up so much that people did not have the money to spare.