Isn’t the state of this countries problems partly due to the fact of the conservative government being in power from 79-97 and saying all can have, mortgages boomed credit cards become more widely used. Banks then lent more people became more selfish and wanted, expected. Which drove the banks on more, they I believe caused the starting of the bubble, I don’t let labour off either, but I do believe they had no choice but to invest in the infrastructure Schools, Hospitals that were old grumbling and falling down.
I believe we are suffering now as a result of what both parties have contributed too so I can’t feel comfortable with either of these parties, they have both failed us and caused the problems we are all facing now.
Hopefully with two parties having to work together compromise as most relationship partnerships have to learn to do I feel is the only hope we have left, that they might find an more even balance.
what are you views?
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Am I naive but...
very much so minx.....we all hear about the state of the debt and the economy. Yes..its in a bad way, but lets remember this was a global recession. Every country around the world is feeling this recession. This is not exclusive to Great Britain. Its the old story of America sneezes and we all get a full blown cold. It this situation america got flu..and we all got pneumonia !!
The excesses of the thather 80's are at the route of all this. We were encouraged to be greedy and in reality selfish. We had an age of champagne sloshing Yuppies, driving round in brand new porches, shouting loads of money ( in a harry enfield way), whilst gambling on stock exchange with OUR hard earned money. We had mass poll tax roits in streets, we had mass racial unrest and roits in our streets. we had black wednesday, when the government lost total control and had to put interest rates up to over 15% !! Lets hope and pray, we don't go back to that.
The excesses of the thather 80's are at the route of all this. We were encouraged to be greedy and in reality selfish. We had an age of champagne sloshing Yuppies, driving round in brand new porches, shouting loads of money ( in a harry enfield way), whilst gambling on stock exchange with OUR hard earned money. We had mass poll tax roits in streets, we had mass racial unrest and roits in our streets. we had black wednesday, when the government lost total control and had to put interest rates up to over 15% !! Lets hope and pray, we don't go back to that.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
Isn’t the state of this countries problems partly due to the fact of the conservative government being in power from 79-97 and saying all can have, mortgages boomed credit cards become more widely used. Banks then lent more people became more selfish and wanted, expected. Which drove the banks on more, they I believe caused the starting of the bubble, I don’t let labour off either, but I do believe they had no choice but to invest in the infrastructure Schools, Hospitals that were old grumbling and falling down.
I believe we are suffering now as a result of what both parties have contributed too so I can’t feel comfortable with either of these parties, they have both failed us and caused the problems we are all facing now.
Hopefully with two parties having to work together compromise as most relationship partnerships have to learn to do I feel is the only hope we have left, that they might find an more even balance.
what are you views?
Yes you are very naive Minx.
When Labour came into power way back in 1997, the economy was in great shape..
" But Mr Brown's critics point out that much of his success must be attributed to the lucky timing of his appointment: Mr Brown was fortunate in that he inherited a strong economy from the Tories".
This comment taken from this article way back in 2004 yes 2004 clearly states...
" Critics also see Mr Brown as a meddler whose actions have led to a sharp increase in red tape for business. And they hit out at what they see as an unsustainable rise in government spending, much of it based on a rise in borrowing.
These people knew then what the rest of us know now.
Labour inherited a country in pretty good financial standing, and at the end of it all we find ourselves almost skint.
If you cannot see the relevance in all that, then yes you are very naive.
Quote by kentswingers777
Isn’t the state of this countries problems partly due to the fact of the conservative government being in power from 79-97 and saying all can have, mortgages boomed credit cards become more widely used. Banks then lent more people became more selfish and wanted, expected. Which drove the banks on more, they I believe caused the starting of the bubble, I don’t let labour off either, but I do believe they had no choice but to invest in the infrastructure Schools, Hospitals that were old grumbling and falling down.
I believe we are suffering now as a result of what both parties have contributed too so I can’t feel comfortable with either of these parties, they have both failed us and caused the problems we are all facing now.
Hopefully with two parties having to work together compromise as most relationship partnerships have to learn to do I feel is the only hope we have left, that they might find an more even balance.
what are you views?
Yes you are very naive Minx.
When Labour came into power way back in 1997, the economy was in great shape..
" But Mr Brown's critics point out that much of his success must be attributed to the lucky timing of his appointment: Mr Brown was fortunate in that he inherited a strong economy from the Tories".
This comment taken from this article way back in 2004 yes 2004 clearly states...
" Critics also see Mr Brown as a meddler whose actions have led to a sharp increase in red tape for business. And they hit out at what they see as an unsustainable rise in government spending, much of it based on a rise in borrowing.
These people knew then what the rest of us know now.
Labour inherited a country in pretty good financial standing, and at the end of it all we find ourselves almost skint.
If you cannot see the relevance in all that, then yes you are very naive.
So we base everything on financial standing?
I believe that to be a very blinkered view.
And the reason I say that, is.. We can all have money in the bank but our homes are crumbling because of lack of investment.
Or we can all replace a leaking roof and take a loan out to protect us from rain, cold ill health etc
When the Tories handed over, people say the economy was in great shape, but the infrastructure was falling down. There was no investments in community schools community hospitals, transport, etc etc which makes a community thrive.
I hope you have noticed the conservatives are now mentioning the word communities rather than self (seems the Libs have some power within their thoughts) they might have woken up a little, it is shame some of their hardened supporters still seem stuck in the Thatcher stance.
But I will wait and see what happens, as we can only reflect after an event.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
So we base everything on financial standing?
I believe that to be a very blinkered view.
Blinkered?
:lol: :lol: Why are people still blaming the Tories after 13 yes I repeat 13 years of a Labour Government fgs?
We are in a huge mess now certainly more than we was 13 years ago....1 pounds worth of debt.
For that amount of debt can you honestly see any major improvements in our infrastructure? Have the hospitals improved greatly or the schools?
Bloody hell we even had a Chancellor in Brown who sold our gold reserves at about the cheapest price they had ever been, and now they are at their highest rates ever.....smart move Brown.
STOP blaming the Tories for the problems of today, the Labour Government have had three terms to put things right, IF they were ever wrong when they came back into power fgs.
If your views are not as blinkered as mine are, can you explain to all of us, our current debt problems, and why there is no fundamental improvements in our infrastructure.
I see hardly any difference for all that extra debt Brown got us involved in, and even the IMF ( Google it if you have not heard of them
) and they stated many times that Brown was wrong to keep spending.The only differences I see are the amount of foreigners there are now in the UK...ALL working ? Thought not.
Check the welfare bill when Labour came into power, and now check how much of our money is paid to the welfare budget.
Inner cities are almost on their knees!
When in opposition during the previous Tory administration, the Labour opposition benches constantly had a go at the (then) Tory PFI scheme devised by Ken Clark, the (then) Chancellor.
Once in power, Labour re-badged it as PPP and used that to "fund" the new schools, hospitals etc that were a "feature" of their administration.
What they didn't tell you was that the PPP was a time bomb ticking away ready to go off after Bliar had left office.
That time bomb is well into its priming sequence now and the debt that follows it we will be saddled with for years.
Once in power, Labour re-badged it as PPP and used that to "fund" the new schools, hospitals etc that were a "feature" of their administration.
What they didn't tell you was that the PPP was a time bomb ticking away ready to go off after Bliar had left office.
That time bomb is well into its priming sequence now and the debt that follows it we will be saddled with for years.
Quote by kentswingers777
And years and years and years and years.................etc etc.
GNV.............in your opinion are people right to still blame the Tories after so many years of a Labour Government?
Or is it just deep rooted political bias?
No. Emphatically No!
After so many years when they could have changed things and they didn't, it is right for the new ConDem Alliance though to remind people just how bad the Labour administration was.
But let's hope that they don't do this right through their administration like Labour did through theirs. It was nauseating.
Perhaps the only time to remind them is when they get on their sanctimonious high horses and challenge the CDA spending plans or rather, the lack of money for spending plans and investment!
Quote by kentswingers777
So we base everything on financial standing?
I believe that to be a very blinkered view.
Blinkered?
:lol: :lol: Why are people still blaming the Tories after 13 yes I repeat 13 years of a Labour Government fgs?
We are in a huge mess now certainly more than we was 13 years ago....1 pounds worth of debt.
For that amount of debt can you honestly see any major improvements in our infrastructure? Have the hospitals improved greatly or the schools?
Bloody hell we even had a Chancellor in Brown who sold our gold reserves at about the cheapest price they had ever been, and now they are at their highest rates ever.....smart move Brown.
STOP blaming the Tories for the problems of today, the Labour Government have had three terms to put things right, IF they were ever wrong when they came back into power fgs.
If your views are not as blinkered as mine are, can you explain to all of us, our current debt problems, and why there is no fundamental improvements in our infrastructure.
I see hardly any difference for all that extra debt Brown got us involved in, and even the IMF ( Google it if you have not heard of them
) and they stated many times that Brown was wrong to keep spending.The only differences I see are the amount of foreigners there are now in the UK...ALL working ? Thought not.
Check the welfare bill when Labour came into power, and now check how much of our money is paid to the welfare budget.
Inner cities are almost on their knees!
I don't think I ever said I blame just the Tories, both I blame for their share of what we have now.
Lets not forget the banks in their part either, but I don't think Thatcher can be completely blameless and the Tory government for the longer term of what she drove.
Greed and wanting drove credit buy now pay later, well we all are now.
Did you parents live on credit card?
Fact Credit cards are a relatively recent invention. Until the 1980s, they didn’t play a prominent role in British life. I wonder why that is, have you ever thought about it?
Now a lot of people can not survive without them, but some think this to be the norm.
If there was more afordable housing maybe people would not have felt the need to buy which lead to the greeds of the banks selling on the subprime morgages that lead to their downfall. But Thatcher said we can have, o yes and you believe in her, I can not say she could have foreseen what would happen, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Part of the Labour downfall was bailing out the banks which I feel is what she started.
Labour should have hired a better accountant to keep their books, but if you say you can see no changes, the schools and hospitals that were built in the vicotria era, under the labour goverment no longer look old and worn out they have been refreshed. unless I live in a and around areas that spent all the money.
BTW do you live in an inner city?
As I do and we are doing ok.
Quote by GnV
And years and years and years and years.................etc etc.
GNV.............in your opinion are people right to still blame the Tories after so many years of a Labour Government?
Or is it just deep rooted political bias?
No. Emphatically No!
After so many years when they could have changed things and they didn't, it is right for the new ConDem Alliance though to remind people just how bad the Labour administration was.
But let's hope that they don't do this right through their administration like Labour did through theirs. It was nauseating.
Perhaps the only time to remind them is when they get on their sanctimonious high horses and challenge the CDA spending plans or rather, the lack of money for spending plans and investment!
I agree with you there.
Lets hope they just channel their energy into doing what is right for this country and the people to get us back on track.
But I don't agree we cant reflect back on all the past and say all factors have an impact, that sometimes can take years to see, not just 13 years.
But thats why I say I might be naive and only blame can be put upon the last leading government.
But I think I will stay with my own naive thoughts in that case.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
I don't think I ever said I blame just the Tories, both I blame for their share of what we have now.
Lets not forget the banks in their part either, but I don't think Thatcher can be completely blameless and the Tory government for the longer term of what she drove.
Greed and wanting drove credit buy now pay later, well we all are now.
Why do you blame the Tories now after 13 years? More importantly are you and the lefties going to forever bang on about Thatcher? That was a long time ago now and you really need to move on from that rubbish.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
Did you parents live on credit card?
Fact Credit cards are a relatively recent invention. Until the 1980s, they didn’t play a prominent role in British life. I wonder why that is, have you ever thought about it?
Now a lot of people can not survive without them, but some think this to be the norm.
No they did not live on credit cards, and my Father has still never had one, nor has Mrs777's parents. Do not see the relevance there? There was still people borrowing money to people in the 40's, and people were borrowing it then and hiding behind the curtains when the man knocked on a Friday for his money....not many things have changed from then.
IF people cannot survive without credit cards it is not anyone else's fault but their own. Why are you saying, that people are not now responsible for their own debts?? How ridiculous. Why do people like yourself always look for others to blame, instead at the very feet of the people responsible?
Are you saying that people were forced to sign on the dotted lines for their credit cards? A gun held to their heads unless they spent on those cards? If people cannot afford to live within their means then tough shit when it all goes wrong....nobody's fault but their own.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
If there was more afordable housing maybe people would not have felt the need to buy which lead to the greeds of the banks selling on the subprime morgages that lead to their downfall. But Thatcher said we can have, o yes and you believe in her, I can not say she could have foreseen what would happen, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
What utter gobbly . Thatcher gave people an opportunity to own their own homes, what is so dreadful about that? Millions of people are still living in them to this day.
There will always be poor people who for whatever reason cannot afford the nicer things in life, that is life get on with it. People brought their own homes and I believe it was a fantastic opportunity for millions of people.
Affordable housing is only affordable to the people who can afford it. Sorry but a typical lefty attitude....do not let the more wealthy have everything, and give it all to the more needy. I say you make your own luck in this world and many people worked fecking hard to be able to afford to buy their homes...tough shit on those that could not.....that is life, get on with it.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
Part of the Labour downfall was bailing out the banks which I feel is what she started.
I really do not know where you are coming from here. Are you seriously telling us that Thatcher is to blame for the banks collapse, what after how many years? See what I mean about moving on from blaming Thatcher. People like yourself will still be blaming her in 2099 fgs.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
Labour should have hired a better accountant to keep their books, but if you say you can see no changes, the schools and hospitals that were built in the vicotria era, under the labour goverment no longer look old and worn out they have been refreshed. unless I live in a and around areas that spent all the money.
Refreshed? What a quids worth of debts and all you see is " refreshed "? Well obviously worth every penny they spent then.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
BTW do you live in an inner city?
As I do and we are doing ok.
No I do not live in an inner city....thank God.
You are hardly likely to say anything else, if you live in one.
I went from Catford through Lewisham, into New Cross then into Peckham only last week.
Not only are most foreigners who now live there, but the whole area is absolutely run down. The areas I went through are typical of inner London boroughs nowadays, and looking around as I did, if you really believe that they are ok, well you really are the one that is blinkered, or maybe you are just now used to it??
Quote by kentswingers777
I don't think I ever said I blame just the Tories, both I blame for their share of what we have now.
Lets not forget the banks in their part either, but I don't think Thatcher can be completely blameless and the Tory government for the longer term of what she drove.
Greed and wanting drove credit buy now pay later, well we all are now.
Why do you blame the Tories now after 13 years? More importantly are you and the lefties going to forever bang on about Thatcher? That was a long time ago now and you really need to move on from that rubbish.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
Did you parents live on credit card?
Fact Credit cards are a relatively recent invention. Until the 1980s, they didn’t play a prominent role in British life. I wonder why that is, have you ever thought about it?
Now a lot of people can not survive without them, but some think this to be the norm.
No they did not live on credit cards, and my Father has still never had one, nor has Mrs777's parents. Do not see the relevance there? There was still people borrowing money to people in the 40's, and people were borrowing it then and hiding behind the curtains when the man knocked on a Friday for his money....not many things have changed from then.
IF people cannot survive without credit cards it is not anyone else's fault but their own. Why are you saying, that people are not now responsible for their own debts?? How ridiculous. Why do people like yourself always look for others to blame, instead at the very feet of the people responsible?
Are you saying that people were forced to sign on the dotted lines for their credit cards? A gun held to their heads unless they spent on those cards? If people cannot afford to live within their means then tough shit when it all goes wrong....nobody's fault but their own.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
If there was more afordable housing maybe people would not have felt the need to buy which lead to the greeds of the banks selling on the subprime morgages that lead to their downfall. But Thatcher said we can have, o yes and you believe in her, I can not say she could have foreseen what would happen, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
What utter gobbly . Thatcher gave people an opportunity to own their own homes, what is so dreadful about that? Millions of people are still living in them to this day.
There will always be poor people who for whatever reason cannot afford the nicer things in life, that is life get on with it. People brought their own homes and I believe it was a fantastic opportunity for millions of people.
Affordable housing is only affordable to the people who can afford it. Sorry but a typical lefty attitude....do not let the more wealthy have everything, and give it all to the more needy. I say you make your own luck in this world and many people worked fecking hard to be able to afford to buy their homes...tough shit on those that could not.....that is life, get on with it.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
Part of the Labour downfall was bailing out the banks which I feel is what she started.
I really do not know where you are coming from here. Are you seriously telling us that Thatcher is to blame for the banks collapse, what after how many years? See what I mean about moving on from blaming Thatcher. People like yourself will still be blaming her in 2099 fgs.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
Labour should have hired a better accountant to keep their books, but if you say you can see no changes, the schools and hospitals that were built in the vicotria era, under the labour goverment no longer look old and worn out they have been refreshed. unless I live in a and around areas that spent all the money.
Refreshed? What a quids worth of debts and all you see is " refreshed "? Well obviously worth every penny they spent then.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
BTW do you live in an inner city?
As I do and we are doing ok.
No I do not live in an inner city....thank God.
You are hardly likely to say anything else, if you live in one.
I went from Catford through Lewisham, into New Cross then into Peckham only last week.
Not only are most foreigners who now live there, but the whole area is absolutely run down. The areas I went through are typical of inner London boroughs nowadays, and looking around as I did, if you really believe that they are ok, well you really are the one that is blinkered, or maybe you are just now used to it??
:rotflmao: So funny I didn't expect anything else from you to be honest.I live within the borough of Lewisham and amongst the diversity of people that live here, and have found most of which have a heart, soul and the kind of outward view on life that I have. You get the bad apples but no matter where you live you can not avoid those.
I could have moved to a leafy suburb but it’s the people there and their narrow minded views of others that put me off raising my children there.
A lot of the schools have all had a complete rebuild around here, one of the leading teaching group of hospitals Kings, St Thomas, Guy’s Lewisham have had a lot of money spend as they were all suffering they accomodate people from miles with the specialities they have to offer, they were falling into a state.
Our parks have had investments too.
Transport has improved greatly, but then driving you wouldn’t see the benefits
I am not saying all is perfect but it a great deal better than it was.
Just because it isnt a place you would like to live, some of us choose to be here.
If that makes me a lefty because I believe in my community then I am proud to be one.
BTW don't forget I am a Liberal lefty that shares power.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
BTW don't forget I am a Liberal lefty that shares power.
For now....for now.
Hypocrites as to share power they have had to go against some of the fundamental principles, but then again when did political parites have any of those?
If you are happy living where you do, then that is fine by me.
I can only say what I saw from the areas I went through, and they WERE run down.
Most of the inner cities are like that....But from the journey that I took back through Elephant and Castle, through Camberwell etc....frankly it was horrid and to go out there after dark well, you must have to have nerves of steel.
Never saw much in the way of regeneration or new housing along any of those routes.
Seems a lot of the British whites have moved out of those areas, as it was hard to spot one....it really was that obvious.
Maybe they have all moved to the seaside
Quote by kentswingers777
BTW don't forget I am a Liberal lefty that shares power.
For now....for now.
Hypocrites as to share power they have had to go against some of the fundamental principles, but then again when did political parites have any of those?
If you are happy living where you do, then that is fine by me.
I can only say what I saw from the areas I went through, and they WERE run down.
Most of the inner cities are like that....But from the journey that I took back through Elephant and Castle, through Camberwell etc....frankly it was horrid and to go out there after dark well, you must have to have nerves of steel.
Never saw much in the way of regeneration or new housing along any of those routes.
Seems a lot of the British whites have moved out of those areas, as it was hard to spot one....it really was that obvious.
Maybe they have all moved to the seaside
It was dark then....
The scale of debt in the UK
The scale of individual debt has increased sharply over recent times. By the end of June 2007, total lending to individuals reached £1,345 billion, of which 84% or £1,131 billion was mortgage lending and the remainder £214 billion was consumer credit (of which £54 billion was secured on credit cards).
Table: Total individual debts (£ billion)
1997 (to May) 2007 (to June)
Secured on dwellings 419 1,131
Consumer credit 84 214
Total 503 1,345
Source: Bank of England
The above is an extract from this article:
It shows how the levels of personal debt rose nearly 3 fold in the first 10 years of the Labour Government. These levels had reached about £1.7 billion by 2010. The Labour "boom" years were fuelled in the main by the huge increase in consumer debt.
In edit.......apologies for the alignment of the figures, they were correctly aligned when typed and still are when I'm editing this
The scale of individual debt has increased sharply over recent times. By the end of June 2007, total lending to individuals reached £1,345 billion, of which 84% or £1,131 billion was mortgage lending and the remainder £214 billion was consumer credit (of which £54 billion was secured on credit cards).
Table: Total individual debts (£ billion)
1997 (to May) 2007 (to June)
Secured on dwellings 419 1,131
Consumer credit 84 214
Total 503 1,345
Source: Bank of England
The above is an extract from this article:
It shows how the levels of personal debt rose nearly 3 fold in the first 10 years of the Labour Government. These levels had reached about £1.7 billion by 2010. The Labour "boom" years were fuelled in the main by the huge increase in consumer debt.
In edit.......apologies for the alignment of the figures, they were correctly aligned when typed and still are when I'm editing this
Quote by kentswingers777
So we base everything on financial standing?
I believe that to be a very blinkered view.
Blinkered?
:lol: :lol: Why are people still blaming the Tories after 13 yes I repeat 13 years of a Labour Government fgs?
We are in a huge mess now certainly more than we was 13 years ago....1 pounds worth of debt.
For that amount of debt can you honestly see any major improvements in our infrastructure? Have the hospitals improved greatly or the schools?
Bloody hell we even had a Chancellor in Brown who sold our gold reserves at about the cheapest price they had ever been, and now they are at their highest rates ever.....smart move Brown.
STOP blaming the Tories for the problems of today, the Labour Government have had three terms to put things right, IF they were ever wrong when they came back into power fgs.
If your views are not as blinkered as mine are, can you explain to all of us, our current debt problems, and why there is no fundamental improvements in our infrastructure.
I see hardly any difference for all that extra debt Brown got us involved in, and even the IMF ( Google it if you have not heard of them
) and they stated many times that Brown was wrong to keep spending.The only differences I see are the amount of foreigners there are now in the UK...ALL working ? Thought not.
Check the welfare bill when Labour came into power, and now check how much of our money is paid to the welfare budget.
Inner cities are almost on their knees!
MRI scanners. Not many of them around in 1997. I've had three MRI scans in the last too years - average waiting time two and a half weeks, all at hospitals that have been rebuilt or are beign rebuilt since 1997.
When I needed an op two years ago I got a date within four weeks,a, and the op within six weeks, at a hospital of my choice, handy for work so I could nip out after a morning's work.
There's a brand new upper school just up the road, the second in this town since 1997. Six new primary schools, two Sure Start centres, two new medical centres, a new community hospital....
Same in the next town up the road, more schools being built in the county...
We don't live in the same world Kenty....
Quote by Google
We don't live in the same world Kenty....
But you was saying only the other day Google, that some people had not seen trains since the 50's in your area.....make ya mind up.
Kids have to travel, what did you say now....oh yes up to 70 miles to get to school.
No we certainly do not live in the same world matey, in fact I think you live in the " make it all up as you go along sort of world " !!
I cannot be bothered to find those comments, but I can if you deny saying them.
Quote by kentswingers777
We don't live in the same world Kenty....
But you was saying only the other day Google, that some people had not seen trains since the 50's in your area.....make ya mind up.
Kids have to travel, what did you say now....oh yes up to 70 miles to get to school.
No we certainly do not live in the same world matey, in fact I think you live in the " make it all up as you go along sort of world " !!
I cannot be bothered to find those comments, but I can if you deny saying them.
No, I said them. It just goes to prove what an odd approach you have to this.
Have a look here -
The towns served by the Wannie lost their trains in the 1950s - they're in the same county as me. Ashington and Blyth lost their passenger trains in the 60s, as did Alnwick.
Kids travelling up to 70 miles to go to school? In Northumberland we even have to provide a state boarding establishment for kids who live outside the maximum 75 minutes travel time for a conventional road journey from their pickup point - you can learn about it here -
Now, you've accused me of making stuff up - want to retract it Ken or do you want to drag this thread down into the mire again?
Quote by kentswingers777
kent some bedtime reading for you
Just so you can see some facts:thumbup:
Is that supposed to prove something, if so can you kindly tell me what exactly.
You said you have not seen any improvements since the last government took power and where the money got spent.
So there are some facts there which are facts and no news paper reports.
Money that has been spent, on the decaying infrastructure that the Tories left behind
But then in your mind the Tories done a great job and left us in a good economical position.
As I have said I am not a labour supporter based on my own experience growing up under both parties both of which caused me to question their capabilities to get a balance.
But as you seem to think the sun shines out of the backsides of the Tories, and they have not failed us either, I think for that you are very blinkered.
What would you prefer putting children in classes, people in hospitals where the windows were cracked paint falling of ceilings, no heating run down and uncared for.
But then maybe you are a true Tory that believed in letting that happen as you had private health care and sent your children to private school.
As that was what happening under your Government but lets not forget the economy was in great shape.
I just believe in community hospital and schools that we can all share. It breeds a community what we all part off. Some of us make the most of it, others just live there and close their front doors and don’t really give a damn.
What I have heard so far from the Tory governments conference is it seems they might have learnt of the era of their ways, but I save judgement on that but then they do have Liberal influences there too. Maybe this is the changing of the old political ways.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
snip...
What I have heard so far from the Tory governments conference is it seems they might have learnt of the era of their ways, but I save judgement on that but then they do have Liberal influences there too. Maybe this is the changing of the old political ways.
:thumbup:
necessity is the mother of invention.
Quote by GnV
snip...
What I have heard so far from the Tory governments conference is it seems they might have learnt of the era of their ways, but I save judgement on that but then they do have Liberal influences there too. Maybe this is the changing of the old political ways.
:thumbup:
necessity is the mother of invention.
The thing is in all this is I don't know who I despise the most, Thatcherite I am all right Jack sod everyone else types, or People that want everything for nothing.
Luckily there are people around that stand somewhere in the middle, and I would rather stand with them. Just don't know for sure what party talks for them, hoping the new Government might give me the answers.
Maybe a new party will be formed between the two you might even get a few labour people joining them to, now thats a intersting thought.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
The thing is in all this is I don't know who I despise the most, Thatcherite I am all right Jack sod everyone else types, or People that want everything for nothing.
Luckily there are people around that stand somewhere in the middle, and I would rather stand with them. Just don't know for sure what party talks for them, hoping the new Government might give me the answers.
Maybe a new party will be formed between the two you might even get a few labour people joining them to, now thats a intersting thought.
A disgruntled David M crossing the floor of the House for example?
Lord Hutton, an ex labour Minister is doing the Governments' bidding on pension reforms just now and, by all accounts, doing a good job too (unless you are LA or HMG pensioner of course).
David Camerons speech...
" Let's start by being honest with ourselves. The mess this country is in – it's not all because of Labour.
Of course, they must take some of the blame. Alright - they need to take a lot of the blame.
Let me just get this off my chest. They left us with massive debts, the highest deficit, overstretched armed forces, demoralised public services, endless ridiculous rules and regulations and quangos and bureaucracy and nonsense.
They left us a legacy of spinning, smearing, briefing, back-biting, half-truths and cover-ups, patronising, old-fashioned, top-down, wasteful, centralising, inefficient, ineffective, unaccountable politics, 10p tax and 90 days detention, an election bottled and a referendum denied, gold sold at half price and council tax doubled, bad news buried and Mandelson resurrected, pension funds destroyed and foreign prisoners not deported, Gurkhas kept out and extremist preachers allowed in.
Yes, they deserve some blame, and we'll never let them forget it.
But the point I want to make is this. The state of our nation is not just determined by the government and those who run it. It is determined by millions of individual actions – by what each of us do and what we choose not to do.
Sounds like common sense and honesty to me !!!!
" Let's start by being honest with ourselves. The mess this country is in – it's not all because of Labour.
Of course, they must take some of the blame. Alright - they need to take a lot of the blame.
Let me just get this off my chest. They left us with massive debts, the highest deficit, overstretched armed forces, demoralised public services, endless ridiculous rules and regulations and quangos and bureaucracy and nonsense.
They left us a legacy of spinning, smearing, briefing, back-biting, half-truths and cover-ups, patronising, old-fashioned, top-down, wasteful, centralising, inefficient, ineffective, unaccountable politics, 10p tax and 90 days detention, an election bottled and a referendum denied, gold sold at half price and council tax doubled, bad news buried and Mandelson resurrected, pension funds destroyed and foreign prisoners not deported, Gurkhas kept out and extremist preachers allowed in.
Yes, they deserve some blame, and we'll never let them forget it.
But the point I want to make is this. The state of our nation is not just determined by the government and those who run it. It is determined by millions of individual actions – by what each of us do and what we choose not to do.
Sounds like common sense and honesty to me !!!!
:thumbup: from me on that kenty.
I watched his speech with a lump in my throat (which is much nicer than some have to suffer in England's second city.. usually a knife in their froat or a broken beer glass or bottle) and his customary rallying call at the end of his speech was marvellous.
I also think that his decision not to do the usual "gloat" and 5 minute standing ovation was the measure of the man. He is a true statesman and I think will rank amongst Britain's Best when history is written.
I watched his speech with a lump in my throat (which is much nicer than some have to suffer in England's second city.. usually a knife in their froat or a broken beer glass or bottle) and his customary rallying call at the end of his speech was marvellous.
I also think that his decision not to do the usual "gloat" and 5 minute standing ovation was the measure of the man. He is a true statesman and I think will rank amongst Britain's Best when history is written.
