Bending the news (First time buyers)

7 Aug 2011

Quote by deancannock

congratulations starlight and glad you have been so lucky in your life. I myself in 7 years will be in same situation....but I still have enough human concern to know that their are others less forunate than me. I myself was made redundant, 6 months ago and for a time was very concerned about how I was going to make ends meet. In your world that would of been my fault, was a lack of hard work and trying on my side, and so long as you were alright Jack, then in reality who were you to give a shit. No thats not how i live my life !!!
Now coming to your highlighted parts. It seems you assume everyone that lives in a council house or housing assoc house is a waster and living in a scum area's. I think alot of people living there, would take great offence at that sweeping statement. A great number of people that live in council accommadation, are hard working, very house proud people. My freind that I go out with on a friday night is a lorry driver. Works away alot and works very long hours at times. Most def not a slacker. He can not afford a morgage, so has a lovely two bedroomed council house, in a quiet cul de sac. Quite a desireable area i would say, if i was an estate agent. Then at the end you say, housing assoc accommadation is full of eastern europeans , living 50 in a room !! Well firstly I think a comment like that is bordering on racism !! Eastern Europeans are legally allowed to enter the UK. This is because we are part of the EU. This is the EU that Ted Heath and the tories took us into, and every party since has kept us signed up to. They do not have large family units, like some other nationals, and so is totally ridiculas to suggest they live overcrowed. also the housing assoc, rent out building for specific numbers of occupation. If they found out accommadation was being overcrowed they would close the tenancy down.
In reality Starlight you rather bigoted comments, smack of the " I'm alright Jack, so up yours " ................... Some of us have an ounce or two of humanity, you may be surprised to hear !!!
What he said

Quote by starlightcouple
LUCKY ?? no luck involved at all dean. hard work pure and simple.

Many many people work a damn site harder than you or me and can never afford to buy their own homes ….. so yes LUCKY

Quote by starlightcouple
get off the moral high ground dean for fecks sake' if you care so much about peeple less fortunate than you then go and work for oxfam!!

So if I read your tone correctly … concern for the welfare of others is something to be sneered at ??
Seems that Dean would have to come a long long way down to no longer occupy the moral high ground

Quote by starlightcouple
i thought the tories and mr heath took us into europe to TRADE. you know dean to do business with. what did the peeple vote for in what was it now 1973? the COMMON MARKET it was called dean. obviously not old enough for you to remember but it is part of history dean. google it.

I would suggest you google a little bit more and find out who signed the Maastricht treaty .. and numerous other treaties …. I'll give you a clue the party starts with a big C

Quote by starlightcouple
is that right dean? so there are no over crowded properties by eastern euroes in the uk then?

Obviously we wont mention the thousands of British passport holders living in overcrowded council accommodation because of the short sighted housing policies of every government since '79
Go on use your search engine of choice

Quote by starlightcouple
maybe every home owner should give up half of the profits on there houses and flats to help these poor peeple out eh? :twisted:

Well it would be a start, I'd do it ….. what about you? It was after all your idea

Quote by Too Hot
There is much to say about having a social and caring attitude to the less fortunate people in our society but really far too many people need to waken up and realise that their life is in their own hands and they make or break their own life by their own efforts. No point in blaming anyone else - it is your life.

The thing is TH as I've mention before many aspects of many peoples lives are not in their own hands ,whatever you may choose to think, are all aspects of your life...the thing is not that you or any other individual can determine their circumstance but that many can't … simply telling them that they can will never change the fact that they are trapped (in many cases) by things beyond their control

Quote by starlightcouple
what seams reely htpocritical rob is that there are thosands of peeple up and down the country who live in either council of housing asociation properties who could well afford to buy there own homes yet get there rents subsisided.
i always thought these kinds of properties affordable housing for peeple that well could not afford any thing else?
i know of someone who runs there own business and erns a fortune yet gets subsidised housing? how can that be right? if he has the money or others like him shgould they not be made to pay the market value of rent for that house?
what gives them the right to cheep rents?

Social housing was, at it's height in the latter half of the 20th century, meant to be used by people from all walks of life ,and was …. the idea that it is for the poor in many ways explains why it has in the last 30 years been ghettoised
Are you suggesting that people should be forced to use their income to buy a house if they do not wish to ?? So much for free markets eh??
Have you thought that just possibly all that disposable income from the rich in council housing might just be better for the economy than thousands and thousands of pounds tied up in mortgages??
People who live in council and housing association owned properties do not pay 'subsidised' rents unless they receive housing benefits
You saw fit earlier to criticise Deans grasp of recent history …. kettles and pots come to mind
Oh and what gives these 'rich' people the right to live in council houses ?? the fact that they pay their taxes ?? just a thought …. or maybe even the fact that they put their names down on the list and were lucky enough to win the lottery that is social housing in the 21st century

Quote by starlightcouple
seams a few of those kids ended uip being members on here.

Go on tell us who …. you know you want to know you'll be wrong us anyway
goongoongoongoongoongoongoon

7 Aug 2011

Quote by Max777
Eastern Europeans are legally allowed to enter the UK. This is because we are part of the EU. This is the EU that Ted Heath and the tories took us into, and every party since has kept us signed up to

In fairness Dean, Ted Heath took the UK into the European Economic Community, which was quite a different animal to the European Union of today.
very much so Max...the point I was really trying to get across, was that this is hardly a party political issue. We were taken in under a Tory government and have been kept there since under the goverment of both Tory and Labour. Infact it was the far left , and the likes of Tony Benn, who were bitterly opposed to the union at the time, and warned of the start of a federal state !! he was ridiculed at the time, for those views!!

7 Aug 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Go on tell us who …. you know you want to know you'll be wrong us anyway
goongoongoongoongoongoongoon

you do talk the biggest load of old bollox i have ever herd on a forum and i have herd a few beleeve me.
i beleeve this site was much better when you had gone to the pub mr staggers but you obviously bullied every one at that pub so was left with nobody else to talk to so came back here.
you wont bully me
go on try.
goongoongoongoongoongoongoongoongoongoongoongoongoongoongoongoongoongoongoongoongoon
:kissmyarse:
:rascal::rascal:

7 Aug 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
People who live in council and housing association owned properties do not pay 'subsidised' rents unless they receive housing benefits

wrong wrong and wrong again big boy.
on average a housing asociation tenant pays only 60% of what the property would be worth on the open market.
i am sure you know somebody who lives in a council or housing ascociation propert. ask them what there rent is and then look to see how much that property is to rent in the private sector.
as i said alredy they are subsidised.
a council propery around here with 3 bedrooms is roughly £450 per calender month, a 3 bedroomed property in the same road is £875 per calender is the same up and down the land.
it matters not a jot if you are working and getting no benefits the rent is the same.
have the last word though. you know you want to. youdoyoudoyoudo lol

not one to quote from this paper but here goes.

any one who wants to reed this please reed all the article and not just the first two words.
" Take Bevin Court. The average rent for a one-bedroom flat, according to Islington Borough Council, is a week - about one quarter of the market rent. There is a one-bedroom flat in the same block for rent through -me. at £280 a week.
With such a high discrepancy between council rents and market rents in many areas, it is scarcely any wonder that a huge number of council tenants have taken advantage by illegally subletting their properties.
The Department for Communities and Local Government last year estimated there are 200,000 illegally sublet council homes ".
" In future, all tenants will be means-tested every five years to see if they still need subsidised housing. Even so, many thousands of well-off tenants living on existing tenancies will continue to enjoy their homes on the cheap - supported by you and me ".
:thumbup::thumbup:

7 Aug 2011

funny really
if first time buyers get on the ladder good for them
does anyone konw the difference between a getto and social housing ??? thats right the people that live there turn social housing into gettos
council tower blocks that was a disaster too
council housing failed whether any one likes it or not it and the ideals behind it floored big time ,wanna jump the cue its easy just know how to work the system
maybe if labour didn't do the old pals act for its mates and create endless quangos then there would be lots more in the pot for new housing
i must admit if i drive round the local estate theres a few with lets say much better than the average car or two in the drives so as star says means testing is a good thing
by other means some are living in cramped positions but then some could say why have so many children when you really arn`t in a position to house or bring them up

7 Aug 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
People who live in council and housing association owned properties do not pay 'subsidised' rents unless they receive housing benefits

wrong wrong and wrong again big boy.
on average a housing asociation tenant pays only 60% of what the property would be worth on the open market.
i am sure you know somebody who lives in a council or housing ascociation propert. ask them what there rent is and then look to see how much that property is to rent in the private sector.
as i said alredy they are subsidised.
a council propery around here with 3 bedrooms is roughly £450 per calender month, a 3 bedroomed property in the same road is £875 per calender is the same up and down the land.
it matters not a jot if you are working and getting no benefits the rent is the same.
have the last word though. you know you want to. youdoyoudoyoudo lol

not one to quote from this paper but here goes.

any one who wants to reed this please reed all the article and not just the first two words.
" Take Bevin Court. The average rent for a one-bedroom flat, according to Islington Borough Council, is a week - about one quarter of the market rent. There is a one-bedroom flat in the same block for rent through -me. at £280 a week.
With such a high discrepancy between council rents and market rents in many areas, it is scarcely any wonder that a huge number of council tenants have taken advantage by illegally subletting their properties.
The Department for Communities and Local Government last year estimated there are 200,000 illegally sublet council homes ".
" In future, all tenants will be means-tested every five years to see if they still need subsidised housing. Even so, many thousands of well-off tenants living on existing tenancies will continue to enjoy their homes on the cheap - supported by you and me ".
:thumbup::thumbup:
Do you know the difference between 'cheap' and 'subsidised'????
Do you understand how averages are calculated ??
Do you understand how very high figures (or very low) at either end of a sample can distort an average ??

7 Aug 2011

mr staggers it seams that you cannot understand simple maths.
there are peeple out there who should not be renting council houses or housing asociation ones as they are taking away the need from the very peeple that those properties were there to house....the poor.
peeple with jags and bmw's parked on there drives and take three holidays a yeer. the system was never ment to house peeple like that. times have changed from yeers gone by when only the destitute were given council housing.
the rents of these properties are subsidised whatever you say.
peeple with brand new jags and flash holidays are taking the rights away of poorer peeple who need subsidised housing.
no wonder we have a housing crisis out there in that market, affordable housing.

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Do you know the difference between 'cheap' and 'subsidised'????

council housing is both of these things

7 Aug 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
mr staggers it seams that you cannot understand simple maths.
there are peeple out there who should not be renting council houses or housing asociation ones as they are taking away the need from the very peeple that those properties were there to house....the poor.
peeple with jags and bmw's parked on there drives and take three holidays a yeer. the system was never ment to house peeple like that. times have changed from yeers gone by when only the destitute were given council housing.
the rents of these properties are subsidised whatever you say.
peeple with brand new jags and flash holidays are taking the rights away of poorer peeple who need subsidised housing.
no wonder we have a housing crisis out there in that market, affordable housing.
Do you know the difference between 'cheap' and 'subsidised'????

council housing is both of these things
Council houses were never and are not there to house the poor they are there to house people...they are not charity they are not subsidised.... we have a housing crisis because from the Thatcher government onwards councils have been forced to sell their housing stocks and prevented from re-investing the proceeds into building new ones
I do understand simple maths ..... do you actually know what the question is ??

7 Aug 2011

let's take two identical houses A is owned by the council B is owned by a private rent on property A is £100 the rent on B £200
Ah you say property B is paying more therefore property A is subsidised
The landlord on property B has a mortgage on the property so charges more because he has to cover the payments on it,he also wants to make a profit, so again he adds a little more to the rent to account for that,his insurance is more because as the owner of just a few properties he cannot negotiate the same deals as an organisation with several thousand
So we can see that whereas the rent on property A is a genuine reflection of the cost of maintaining that property the rent on property B is artificially inflated by the needs of the landlord
Q.E.D simple as they say maths .... anyone need the different types of 'average' and how to calculate them explaining ??

7 Aug 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
So we can see that whereas the rent on property A is a genuine reflection of the cost of maintaining that property the rent on property B is artificially inflated by the needs of the landlord

:laughabove::laughabove:
i think you will find in many cases mr stagggers that the landlord does not set the rent, the market place does.
i have an estate agent near me and a landlord could try and go in there and say he wants 1600 pounds a month rent for his property but the good estate agent will kindly point out that the market says his property is only valued at 1000 per month. he can of course decide to continue to try and get the 1600 pounds, but nobody is going to pay over the odds.
a bit like the cost of a property. a valuer values the said property and then puts a value on it based on the market value. the owner of that house does not set the value the market does. are you with me on this one mr stagggers as i know you can drift off from time to time :notes:
of course on occasion you get the idiot who will pay over that market value as they reely want that property but on the whole unless you go to a private landlord privately which would be madness, a letting agency will only charge what it deems the market value no matter how much the landlord may want extra to fund what exactly again mr staggers? lol

7 Aug 2011

Quote by starlightcouple

So we can see that whereas the rent on property A is a genuine reflection of the cost of maintaining that property the rent on property B is artificially inflated by the needs of the landlord

:laughabove::laughabove:
i think you will find in many cases mr stagggers that the landlord does not set the rent, the market place does.
i have an estate agent near me and a landlord could try and go in there and say he wants 1600 pounds a month rent for his property but the good estate agent will kindly point out that the market says his property is only valued at 1000 per month. he can of course decide to continue to try and get the 1600 pounds, but nobody is going to pay over the odds.
a bit like the cost of a property. a valuer values the said property and then puts a value on it based on the market value. the owner of that house does not set the value the market does. are you with me on this one mr stagggers as i know you can drift off from time to time :notes:
of course on occasion you get the idiot who will pay over that market value as they reely want that property but on the whole unless you go to a private landlord privately which would be madness, a letting agency will only charge what it deems the market value no matter how much the landlord may want extra to fund what exactly again mr staggers? lol

And that market value is determined how ???

7 Aug 2011

Addendum .... as starlight has so kindly pointed out there is also the fee of the letting agent to take into account when calculating how private rents are artificially inflated .... thank you starlight I'd forgotten that one

7 Aug 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
And that market value is determined how ???

Go into a letting Agent - they will tell you. You are in cuckoo land if you think a private landlord picks a number out the air just because it may cover his mortgage. The letting Agents know the market value - it is what someonne is willing to pay - simple.

7 Aug 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Addendum .... as starlight has so kindly pointed out there is also the fee of the letting agent to take into account when calculating how private rents are artificially inflated .... thank you starlight I'd forgotten that one

At one point in time I suspected that some of your posts contained some kind of thought process - even if I didn't think the same way - there was some thought there. The last few posts in this thread have given you away.
What on earth can you possibly imagine that the letting fee has to do with anything at all? It is a tax deductible expense which bwears no relation whatsoever to the market value of a rental property in a particular area! what a bizarre last couple of posts.

7 Aug 2011

Quote by Too Hot

And that market value is determined how ???

Go into a letting Agent - they will tell you. You are in cuckoo land if you think a private landlord picks a number out the air just because it may cover his mortgage. The letting Agents know the market value - it is what someonne is willing to pay - simple.
Surely then private rents would be inline with council rents or even lower .... or do the landlords in reality have a say in determining rent .... they may well not get exactly what they want ... but I'm damn sure they get what they need
Now not being able to determine things hhhhmmmmmm ???? let me think

7 Aug 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB

And that market value is determined how ???

Go into a letting Agent - they will tell you. You are in cuckoo land if you think a private landlord picks a number out the air just because it may cover his mortgage. The letting Agents know the market value - it is what someonne is willing to pay - simple.
Surely then private rents would be inline with council rents or even lower .... or do the landlords in reality have a say in determining rent .... they may well not get exactly what they want ... but I'm damn sure they get what they need
Now not being able to determine things hhhhmmmmmm ???? let me think
isn't private landlords rent also subject to tax where i do beleive council properties are not

7 Aug 2011

Council built (and still build I believe) properties at cost via tender. These properties are then let via the social housing scheme at a discount from local market rates - a full explanation can be found in a parliamentary document about social housing that was last revised in january of this year:
Rent setting for social housing tenancies
Standard Note: SN/SP/1090. Last updated: 27 January 2011
You can look back over each version of this document going back years and the common thread is:
"The (Labour) Government’s policy was that all social landlords (local authorities and housing associations) should offer similar rents for similar properties, whilst maintaining substantial discounts to market rents."
That took about five minutes research and kind of works better than spouting off a load of nonsense that ends up just making you look a bit silly. If successive Government policies have been to subsidise social housing why are you banging on about it being NOT subsidised and actually being a true reflection of rent? It is illogical and so easily and factually disproved.

7 Aug 2011

Quote by Too Hot
At one point in time I suspected that some of your posts contained some kind of thought process - even if I didn't think the same way - there was some thought there. The last few posts in this thread have given you away.
what a bizarre last couple of posts.

i had my feelings all along and have been proved right. lol

anyway thank you too hot for making the argument of Mr Staggers flawed much better than i could have done. :notes:
i have my suspisions that mr staggers has had a couple over the eight of these

:grin::grin:

7 Aug 2011

Quote by Too Hot
Council built (and still build I believe) properties at cost via tender. These properties are then let via the social housing scheme at a discount from local market rates - a full explanation can be found in a parliamentary document about social housing that was last revised in january of this year:
Rent setting for social housing tenancies
Standard Note: SN/SP/1090. Last updated: 27 January 2011
You can look back over each version of this document going back years and the common thread is:
"The (Labour) Government’s policy was that all social landlords (local authorities and housing associations) should offer similar rents for similar properties, whilst maintaining substantial discounts to market rents."
That took about five minutes research and kind of works better than spouting off a load of nonsense that ends up just making you look a bit silly. If successive Government policies have been to subsidise social housing why are you banging on about it being NOT subsidised and actually being a true reflection of rent? It is illogical and so easily and factually disproved.

I would say that this equates to a policy of maintaining low rents not subsidy .... where in this is the cost to the councils concerned of maintaining these low rents ?? that would be a subsidy
That they have no profit margin is not a subsidy, it is not insisting on profits
In edit
P.S. Very few landlords build houses, as you say any new stock councils acquire is built by them (or as you rightly say contractors)
Now, just as a rough estimate you understand, the councils cost to build house A is £75,000 a landlord would in all probability be unable to buy House B for much less than £150,000, so we have a saving on the councils part of 50% per unit over the price the landlord has to pay (and recoup) we also have to take into account the economies of scale .... councils rarely (if ever) build just one house I'll guess another 10% off .... so as I say council housing is not subsidised it is by it's very nature cheaper .... council and social housing are not charity to promulgate the myth that they are is to condemn them and those who live in them to further degradation ..... the first thing we must sacrifice in times of hardship is usually charity
Took no googling just applied logic and reason

9 Aug 2011

Bending is just everyday practice to the Media and Politicians but not just them .....
Buy one get one free, , SALE, must end Sunday, and all those big words used by toothpaste companies, hair products and the like "contains carobycarbondyatholatecarbunklestuff".
we are all surrounded by words and deeds designed to fool us.
I remember (cos I am an old git) watching MUTV when Sir Alex Ferguson was asked if he would be interested in buying the then wolves striker Robbie Keane who the commentator thought was going for a bargain price of £500,000, Sir Alex said he would not buy him at that price because he had a full stock of strikers and just wasn't in the market for another despite the obviously good price for an extremely talented player, the media repeated this interview but missed out a few vital words simply saying Sir Alex Ferguson said he would not play £500,000 for Robbie Keane, people including poor Robbie were made to think that this was a derogatory statement about the players value and skill, not worthy of Manchester United or the asking price. so simple yet so wrong. But hey, it sells papers ;)

12 Aug 2011

housing association properties are not subsidised, compared to a private landlord yes the rents less typically, but that is due to housing associations being no profit organasations.
in the future because the government are enforcing housing associations to provide a set amount of new tenancies then the housing associations are having to look at setting new rents to that of the (LHA) Local housing allowence. this is so they can start to make a profit so they can fund new builds.
now if you are working and do not recieve any benefits and are un likely to recieve housing benefit then you would pay the full rent, if you are working but eligable for housing benefiy you would pay a % of the rent and housing benefit would top it up to the full rent within the LHA, if you are on full benefits, the rent would be paid in full up to the LHA.
the reasons most people seek social housing is not only due to the rent cost, as those on benefit would get full hb to the LHA private or social, but because most private landlords are a nightmare, do not fix repair issues, often damp properties, and do not want any one with kids or pets.
it is probally in fact prople on a modest income that need teh social housing more as they have to pay all the rent, where by a person on benefit would get a private rent fully paid.
xx fem xx

12 Aug 2011

Nice post fem.

2 Oct 2011

Quote by starlightcouple

So we can see that whereas the rent on property A is a genuine reflection of the cost of maintaining that property the rent on property B is artificially inflated by the needs of the landlord

:laughabove::laughabove:
i think you will find in many cases mr stagggers that the landlord does not set the rent, the market place does.
i have an estate agent near me and a landlord could try and go in there and say he wants 1600 pounds a month rent for his property but the good estate agent will kindly point out that the market says his property is only valued at 1000 per month. he can of course decide to continue to try and get the 1600 pounds, but nobody is going to pay over the odds.
a bit like the cost of a property. a valuer values the said property and then puts a value on it based on the market value. the owner of that house does not set the value the market does. are you with me on this one mr stagggers as i know you can drift off from time to time :notes:
of course on occasion you get the idiot who will pay over that market value as they reely want that property but on the whole unless you go to a private landlord privately which would be madness, a letting agency will only charge what it deems the market value no matter how much the landlord may want extra to fund what exactly again mr staggers? lol

The value of a property is purely what someone else will pay for it. I'm in council housing. I pay £350 a month, no benefit payments. I could potentially buy my house for £56k. The privately bought house next door, similar to mine is currently under offer for £100,000.
The difference between the two house prices? Profit. The owner wants the profit. Lots of owners buy cheap and sell high, it's the same with renting. I know of few landlords who charge what I pay because their mortgage needs covering and they want PROFIT. Many housing associations are charities who cannot make massive profits, the councils are similar. They charge the marketable rent of the property. Private landlords are driven by profit.
The private rental market and the social housing market are very different sadly.
I quite probably fall into the category you mentioned above, where we could move into private rented accommodation. We chose not to though. My rent would double for a smaller house, we're not fantastically well off and having a house that is well within our affordable means (aka living on one salary) has also meant that I can start my own business working from home, meaning I'm here for my kids and have set them the example that effort = reward. I also have well educated, polite, decent human beings for kids.
I don't stay in social housing to rip anyone off, we chose this as it means that we live on one income,taking it in turns to achieve our own dreams (he graduated last year, I'm about to embark on my degree). About 3 years ago we came very close to giving this home up and moving to private rent, if we had then right now we'd be back on the list waiting as the prices rocketed and we'd not be able to pay the rent and live.
The whole point of social housing is that it is affordable. The size of the waiting lists for affordable houses kind of back up that privately rented accommodation is not affordable, driven by landlords looking for profit.