I was listening today on the radio about child benefit and how much it all actually costs.
The total cost is 11 yes 11 billion pounds a year.
The debate was should it be a means tested benefit, rather than just giving it to everyone? The scenario was David Camerons new baby, and the fact that he is rather wealthy, and should the more wealthy actually get or indeed need this benefit.
The saved cost of 11 billion quid a year, could do many other worthwhile things than give money to people who have kids.
Why should the Government support people who have/want kids?
At the very least I believe it should be means tested and anyone earning over say 35 grand a year should not receive it. The Cameron family as an example will get almost 50 quid a week for their children....that is a crazy system and I believe one that should be looked into further.
Apparently this benefit started in the 50's and was paid to Mothers to spend on their kids welfare, as at that time they believed giving the money to the Fathers would result in it being spent on other things, rather than the kids.
Times were completely different then to today, and if the benefit is to be paid surely it should not be paid to people who earn vast sums of money.
IF people want children surely it should be their responsibilty to ensure they can afford them?
Is this benefit out of date, and should it be scrapped, or should it only be paid to a certain section of society that is determined by how much they earn?
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Child benefit
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Orgasminator
:laughabove::laughabove::laughabove:
Sex God
Quote by duncanlondon
well the only reason you can't get decent day's work out of a kid anymore, is they are too obese to fit in a chimney.
The money was never meant for the kids, its for beer and fags ffs :twisted:
Quote by Ben_welshminx
Given the huge resources now devoted to means tested income supplements for people with children it does seem to me to be an anachronism.
Did you mean anachronistic?
Why?
And I AM being serious here Ben, not trying to bait you but I would appreciate an understanding of your use of this word in this context...
Sex God
Quote by Kaznkev
well the only reason you can't get decent day's work out of a kid anymore, is they are too obese to fit in a chimney.
The money was never meant for the kids, its for beer and fags ffs :twisted:
i thought it was for bicardi breezers and fake tan?
My mistake
Sex God
I have never understood why we have all those forms etc. If you work legitimately the tax office know all about it. If you work for cash you would be a fool to declare it on any application anyway. So, the Tax Office knows as much as it is likely to know about a person's income. There is ample information about how many kids you have - via school applications, doctor's lists etc. All of which is information available direct to the Government. Whether you have a live-in partner or the kids have an akcnowledged parent not living in is also easily established from doctor's registrations, where bills are posted to etc.
So why does anyone have to apply for anything apart from medical/disability-based benefits? Surely the government have all the information they need to a) invite adults to the Job Centre and/or the family planning clinic and b) top up incomes that fall below a given minimum? The cost of spot checks would have to be balanced against the risk of over-payment, but it isn't rocket science.
This, surely is one of the few upsides to the all-seeing society we are already in?
Mind you - it can't be all that all-seeing, bearng in mind they lost a dead MI6 operative for a fortnight in the middle of London. :giggle:
So why does anyone have to apply for anything apart from medical/disability-based benefits? Surely the government have all the information they need to a) invite adults to the Job Centre and/or the family planning clinic and b) top up incomes that fall below a given minimum? The cost of spot checks would have to be balanced against the risk of over-payment, but it isn't rocket science.
This, surely is one of the few upsides to the all-seeing society we are already in?
Mind you - it can't be all that all-seeing, bearng in mind they lost a dead MI6 operative for a fortnight in the middle of London. :giggle:
Quote by Kaznkev
I have never understood why we have all those forms etc. If you work legitimately the tax office know all about it. If you work for cash you would be a fool to declare it on any application anyway. So, the Tax Office knows as much as it is likely to know about a person's income. There is ample information about how many kids you have - via school applications, doctor's lists etc. All of which is information available direct to the Government. Whether you have a live-in partner or the kids have an akcnowledged parent not living in is also easily established from doctor's registrations, where bills are posted to etc.
So why does anyone have to apply for anything apart from medical/disability-based benefits? Surely the government have all the information they need to a) invite adults to the Job Centre and/or the family planning clinic and b) top up incomes that fall below a given minimum? The cost of spot checks would have to be balanced against the risk of over-payment, but it isn't rocket science.
This, surely is one of the few upsides to the all-seeing society we are already in?
Mind you - it can't be all that all-seeing, bearng in mind they lost a dead MI6 operative for a fortnight in the middle of London. :giggle:
i know, dont you expect Smiley to step out of the shadows any minute and whisper that the grey goose has flown east for the winter?
Or Lonely from the series from the late 60's early 70's?
That's a fair point foxy.
I wont express any views on the true income position of those not subject to PAYE for fear of the usual responses from the usual sources. Suffice to say if we based benefits on declared income outside of PAYE the system wouldn't be any cheaper or any more efficient.
I wont express any views on the true income position of those not subject to PAYE for fear of the usual responses from the usual sources. Suffice to say if we based benefits on declared income outside of PAYE the system wouldn't be any cheaper or any more efficient.
Quote by GnV
Given the huge resources now devoted to means tested income supplements for people with children it does seem to me to be an anachronism.
Did you mean anachronistic?
Why?
And I AM being serious here Ben, not trying to bait you but I would appreciate an understanding of your use of this word in this context...
Think it could be bump time GNV.
Quote by Ben_welshminx
That's a fair point foxy.
I wont express any views on the true income position of those not subject to PAYE for fear of the usual responses from the usual sources. Suffice to say if we based benefits on declared income outside of PAYE the system wouldn't be any cheaper or any more efficient.
So, those "employees" under the PAYE system are whiter than white then Ben?
Why fear a balanced redress of mistaken views about the self employed by those not assessed for tax by this method?
As it was in the past (not sure now of the present as out of the system), those outside the PAYE system pay their taxes under self assessment rules (SATR) based on certified accounts signed off by Qualified Certified and Chartered Accountants who remain under incredible scrutiny from HMRC on pain of imprisonment if they get it wrong or withhold vital information. Their records are subject to examination at any time of day or night without notice! The self employed are required to pay their tax in two tranches and add to that Class 4 NIC contributions (on top of the Statutory NIC contributions they have to make like all employees do).
Please don't tell me that employees under PAYE do not, in any circumstances ever, work on "the black" and are paid in cash which they don't declare (whether on benefits or not).
Please also don't forget that the self employed are NOT entitled to certain benefits (such as minimum wage, sickness benefit to name a few) even though they pay, in many cases, far more in tax than their equivalently paid employee colleagues are.
We've been here before many times before but it seems some people just have a complete inability to understand or accept the correct position because of their own mistaken beliefs.
Quote by Ben_welshminx
Would you boys please grow up. Or perhaps start a thread on the use of the word anachronism in the 21st century.
You used the word in this thread Ben, and I did ask you politely to explain your use of it so that I can more clearly understand your response since we are all entitled to express our opinions here.
If you can't be civil enough to to reply properly then just maybe you might refrain from making inane comments and spewing out meaningless diatribe.
Sex God
Quote by Ben_welshminx
Would you boys please grow up. Or perhaps start a thread on the use of the word anachronism in the 21st century.
Sex God
Quote by Ben_welshminx
I refuse to be drawn into this dull debate.
What.....You mean the one about the poor old hard done by self employed ?
Quote by Ben_welshminx
I refuse to be drawn into this dull debate.
Well, isn't that just typical.
You spill out a whole pile of meaningless drivel, spout the same mantra and then take your bat home when no-one understands what the hell you're on about.
Back to the thread after that short interlude.
I tend to agree with the notion that the tax system, if simplified - as the Alliance are committed to do - could well respect that fact that people on lower incomes, whatever the source, should benefit first from child allowances. When there is enough money in the pot, the levels at which the allowance is paid could be stepped up.
Quote by Ben_welshminx
I refuse to be drawn into this dull debate.
Then may I very politely suggest you make your comments on another thread, and stop trying to be bloody minded purely for the bloody sake of it.
No wonder you get peoples backs up..........often.
That was said very politely remember!
Quote by kentswingers777
I refuse to be drawn into this dull debate.
Then may I very politely suggest you make your comments on another thread, and stop trying to be bloody minded purely for the bloody sake of it.
No wonder you get peoples backs up..........often.
It has to be said you are so bloody hypocritical. The trouble is often that when someone challenges you politely as GNV has done, you go into sulk mode, and then start playing the...someone wants to take my ball away game.
This is not beach bar server 3 here ya know. :twisted:
In my opinion GNV is one of the true gentlemen on this forum, and explains his opinions in a very balanced and structured way. For you to keep getting his back up something is very wrong, and I think we can all see what.
That was said very politely remember!
Quote by GnV
Please also don't forget that the self employed are NOT entitled to certain benefits (such as minimum wage, sickness benefit to name a few) even though they pay, in many cases, far more in tax than their equivalently paid employee colleagues are.
I know that only too well GNV.
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
Please also don't forget that the self employed are NOT entitled to certain benefits (such as minimum wage, sickness benefit to name a few) even though they pay, in many cases, far more in tax than their equivalently paid employee colleagues are.
I know that only too well GNV.
And I am fast learning about it
Sex God
go ltd blue you get a lot more than just self employed
it does have its draw backs though
first 40k at 10% is welcome though and why shouldn`t you when you've had the gaul to go out on your own knowing you could lose every thing
not many are prepared to do that
to easy to work for some one else then moan how hard done by they are ..are some's attitude
and i not seen a workplace with barbed wire used to keep employees in yet
it does have its draw backs though
first 40k at 10% is welcome though and why shouldn`t you when you've had the gaul to go out on your own knowing you could lose every thing
not many are prepared to do that
to easy to work for some one else then moan how hard done by they are ..are some's attitude
and i not seen a workplace with barbed wire used to keep employees in yet
Sex God
Quote by Ben_welshminx
I refuse to be drawn into this dull debate.
and it was made dull for the same reasons again
