we all know that saying " we are all in this together " spoken by the man with a multi million pound wall paper business part owned by George Osborne.
now it seems that that other tory toff Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith , is now saying that even losing a leg does not get you automatic DLA ( disability living allowance ). neither in this case where Darren Gilligan fails to meet the criteria to receive Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) because he did not score enough points on a medical assessment form.
if you do not score enough points with only one leg, has the austerity measures now gone to far? i am all for targeting peeple who set out to con the welfare system but surely when peeple are blind or are missing limbs for no matter what reason, that they should get the help they so deserve.
both of these tory toffs talk of austerity measures and all in this together, but really do they think we are all fools? how can not having a leg mean you do not possibly qualify for a automatic payout of any sort.
" He pledged to push ahead with controversial reforms that will see two million disability claimants reassessed over the next four years under plans to save the taxpayer billions of pounds ".
is that what the taxpayers of this country really want? to see genuine claimants finding it even harder to get the help they need? has there austerity measures now gone to far?
is the new tests fair on the disabled do you think? are there other measures they could take to make sure the genuine claimants recieve the maximum amount of help?
i am at a loss how peeple from very privileged backgrounds with vast wealth, dictate to others much less fortunate than themselves, about having to take tests for money when missing limbs. i think they should throw peeple like this to the lions, and if not possible now then to kick them out at the next election for being heartless and cold and without any human understanding of others much less fortunate than there own greedy selves.
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has austerity gone to far?
I can see where you're coming from, but what's to stop someone with only one leg working at a job that doesn't necessitate mobility? Of course you can't expect such an individual to go out and get a job as a post man, but there are so many other jobs you could do like be a driver (automatic vehicles...), teacher - there's nothing to stop you becoming a multimillionaire investment banker even! I'm a motorsport enthusiast and engineer. If some freak track-side accident were to leave me without my legs I'd hate to think I'd give up work and claim benefits. I still have something to offer.
Sexpert
Off the top of my head I can think of an Admiral who lost an arm and was blind in one eye, and a pilot who had no legs. Both who had highly successful careers.
Isn't it better for people with disabilities that it is accepted that they should work and achieve their maximum potential? Why couldn't somebody who lost a leg be a postman? Surely it is better that state money is directed towards helping to achieve rather than just given on the assumption that the disabled will sit around?
Isn't it better for people with disabilities that it is accepted that they should work and achieve their maximum potential? Why couldn't somebody who lost a leg be a postman? Surely it is better that state money is directed towards helping to achieve rather than just given on the assumption that the disabled will sit around?
Quote by Robert400andKay
Off the top of my head I can think of an Admiral who lost an arm and was blind in one eye, and a pilot who had no legs. Both who had highly successful careers.
Isn't it better for people with disabilities that it is accepted that they should work and achieve their maximum potential? Why couldn't somebody who lost a leg be a postman? Surely it is better that state money is directed towards helping to achieve rather than just given on the assumption that the disabled will sit around?
Exactly. I agree with you 100%. I meant more that they should not be expected to take on jobs that need them to walk around. If they want to then even better and I agree they should be offered the help and support they need to do so.
Sex God
This has little or nothing to do with 'austerity' measures and is just the natural result and continuation of the persecution and branding of all benefits claimants as scrounging scum ... another nail in the coffin of the welfare state
I know of people who are severely disabled who wouldn't for one moment think of claiming benefits but would do everything in their power to make the very best of what they have. Shame that there are so many 'lead swingers' who feign disability and claim their 'disability' prevents them work.
I somehow think that IDS knows very well about pilots without legs. His father was a very well decorated WWII pilot who probably knew Douglas Bader.
It is the 'lead swingers' who the Alliance are targeting. The daily wail does it again for star.
I somehow think that IDS knows very well about pilots without legs. His father was a very well decorated WWII pilot who probably knew Douglas Bader.
It is the 'lead swingers' who the Alliance are targeting. The daily wail does it again for star.
Quote by GnV
The daily wail does it again for star.
sorry GNV i did not think you would be that bothered by where the news came from.
just for you then. :twisted:
does being in the daily mail annoy you that much then GNV? francho seems to have turned you into a bit of a snob my friend.
:giggle:Quote by GnV
It is the 'lead swingers' who the Alliance are targeting
now you have been out in the sun to long.
if that were the case, all the savings of peeple that should not be on disability benefit, will that extra saved money be passed onto the " genuine " claimants do you think GNV?
pink pig,,,,,,flying,,,,,over there,,,,,
Sex God
Quote by Robert400andKay
Off the top of my head I can think of an Admiral who lost an arm and was blind in one eye, and a pilot who had no legs. Both who had highly successful careers.
Isn't it better for people with disabilities that it is accepted that they should work and achieve their maximum potential? Why couldn't somebody who lost a leg be a postman? Surely it is better that state money is directed towards helping to achieve rather than just given on the assumption that the disabled will sit around?
he does car insurance does he not
Sex God
Quote by deancannock
there is highest un-employment for 20 years or so....able bodied people have little chance of a job.....how the heck they think a person with disabilities is going to I don't know. Create jobs and growth, and then worry about who is going to work.
i will mention this to my website designer, as i am sure not having the use of his legs will some how handicap his abilities as a web designer to a much more able bodied person :dry:
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
This has little or nothing to do with 'austerity' measures and is just the natural result and continuation of the persecution and branding of all benefits claimants as scrounging scum ... another nail in the coffin of the welfare state
you are indeed totaly wrong again
i think you will find the problem is those that want to work normally have the real disability's while others abuse the system because they do not wish to work!!
Quote by starlightcouple
does being in the daily mail annoy you that much then GNV? francho seems to have turned you into a bit of a snob my friend.
Moi, un snob? Jamais!
It's just that I can see the world from a different perspective these days star and I believe I am a far more tolerant person than I once was.
Perhaps this change came about from not being conditioned into a particular mind process...
Quote by starlightcouple
now you have been out in the sun to long.
if that were the case, all the savings of peeple that should not be on disability benefit, will that extra saved money be passed onto the " genuine " claimants do you think GNV?
pink pig,,,,,,flying,,,,,over there,,,,,
Of course not; but it may mean that those genuinely deserving of benefit will not have it cut.
Quote by GnV
Moi, un snob? Jamais!
It's just that I can see the world from a different perspective these days star and I believe I am a far more tolerant person than I once was.
Perhaps this change came about from not being conditioned into a particular mind process...
yes GNV i suppose tolerance is gained with age for all of us. living in the UK i would think many peeple are conditioned into a particular mind process,,,,,how would the labour party have stayed in power for as long as they did not under only bliar but that other idiot brown.
without some kind of mind conditioning taking place? Quote by GnV
Of course not; but it may mean that those genuinely deserving of benefit will not have it cut.
well i would like to think you are right GNV but i beleeve that this bunch of toffs ( remember we are all in this together ) are hell bent on making it almost impossible to claim benefits unless you are blind, or have no limbs at all, or are mentally incapable. the rest will have there benefits cut and told to find work. but where is this work they keep going on about GNV?
there are very few jobs available now, and employers are now used to paying minimum wages for skilled work for if the brits wont do the work for an hour, then a pole will. Polish workers can afford to take a much lower wage as there about about 40 living in one house paying only £50 a month for there lodgings. To stop someones benefits who cannot work, or at the very least will be discriminated against by employers, is a national disgrace GNV. an employer interviewing a disabled person will discriminate, i know they are not suposed to but it happens. whether you are old or the wrong sex, or the wrong colour skin it happens. plus where are the jobs???
Quote by starlightcouple
there are very few jobs available now, and employers are now used to paying minimum wages for skilled work for if the brits wont do the work for an hour, then a pole will. Polish workers can afford to take a much lower wage as there about about 40 living in one house paying only £50 a month for there lodgings.
Funny how what goes around, comes around.
The same was said in my youth about the influx of peoples from Pakistan. Now these people (or their successors and British citizens in their own right) are the very fabric of what is British in today's society - hard working and entirely entrepreneurial, open all hours whilst the Brits fall out of their local public house often too pissed to stand - all paid for by the long suffering British tax payer in benefits dubiously claimed.
Quote by star
To stop someones benefits who cannot work, or at the very least will be discriminated against by employers, is a national disgrace GNV. an employer interviewing a disabled person will discriminate, i know they are not suposed to but it happens. whether you are old or the wrong sex, or the wrong colour skin it happens. {/quote]
Where's your evidence? Not The Daily Wail again, surely
I was an employer and I can honestly say, with my hand on my heart, I never discriminated against disabled job seekers. I employed many in jobs normally reserved for so called 'normal' people and they were the finest and most talented, resourceful people I have ever had the pleasure to meet and pay out of the profits of my own enterprise.
On the other hand, I have also employed (but not for long!) some of the laziest lying, scheming bastards imaginable who presented themselves as 'normal' candidates.
Quote by star
...plus where are the jobs???
There are no jobs and there won't be for as long as disgusting over-weight scroungers continue to sit in front of their telly (paid for by the State) munching all day on pizza (paid for by the State) and swigging copious amounts of strong lager (also paid for by the State) the whole ensemble delivered by the local taxi service (paid for by the State). All of this in the name of a DLA benefits system so outdated they even still claim for their (long) deceased grannies.
Sex God
Quote by Robert400andKay
Off the top of my head I can think of an Admiral who lost an arm and was blind in one eye, and a pilot who had no legs. Both who had highly successful careers.
Isn't it better for people with disabilities that it is accepted that they should work and achieve their maximum potential? Why couldn't somebody who lost a leg be a postman? Surely it is better that state money is directed towards helping to achieve rather than just given on the assumption that the disabled will sit around?
Kay/Rob,
agree, sadly for those with some major disabilities that find it particularly hard to get into employment whether we are in a recession, double dip recession, or not.
The Government has decided that after creating Remploy Ltd in 1945 to provide employment and employment placement services for disabled people, under the terms of the Disabled Persons (Employment) Act 1944, to close 36 of its 54 factories making over 1,700 workers redundant.
:doh:
Quote by HnS
Off the top of my head I can think of an Admiral who lost an arm and was blind in one eye, and a pilot who had no legs. Both who had highly successful careers.
Isn't it better for people with disabilities that it is accepted that they should work and achieve their maximum potential? Why couldn't somebody who lost a leg be a postman? Surely it is better that state money is directed towards helping to achieve rather than just given on the assumption that the disabled will sit around?
Kay/Rob,
agree, sadly for those with some major disabilities that find it particularly hard to get into employment whether we are in a recession, double dip recession, or not.
The Government has decided that after creating Remploy Ltd in 1945 to provide employment and employment placement services for disabled people, under the terms of the Disabled Persons (Employment) Act 1944, to close 36 of its 54 factories making over 1,700 workers redundant.
:doh:
The alternate view:
Phil Friend, vice-chair of Disability Rights UK, said: "Organisations led by disabled people have campaigned long and hard for employment support on our own terms, so we can work in every type of job and every part of the economy. That is the right model for the future."
While the Remploy factory model was right for the 1940s, it was unsustainable today, Friend said.
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
This has little or nothing to do with 'austerity' measures and is just the natural result and continuation of the persecution and branding of all benefits claimants as scrounging scum ... another nail in the coffin of the welfare state
you are indeed totaly wrong again
i think you will find the problem is those that want to work normally have the real disability's while others abuse the system because they do not wish to work!!
And I would suggest that you've just gone a long way towards proving my point .... sweeping generalizations about benefits claimants, well I never
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
This has little or nothing to do with 'austerity' measures and is just the natural result and continuation of the persecution and branding of all benefits claimants as scrounging scum ... another nail in the coffin of the welfare state
you are indeed totaly wrong again
i think you will find the problem is those that want to work normally have the real disability's while others abuse the system because they do not wish to work!!
And I would suggest that you've just gone a long way towards proving my point .... sweeping generalizations about benefits claimants, well I never
of course your arument is well backed up by the constant reports and interviews with claimants who claim they can not afford to go to work as not many jobs pay 50k a year
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
This has little or nothing to do with 'austerity' measures and is just the natural result and continuation of the persecution and branding of all benefits claimants as scrounging scum ... another nail in the coffin of the welfare state
you are indeed totaly wrong again
i think you will find the problem is those that want to work normally have the real disability's while others abuse the system because they do not wish to work!!
And I would suggest that you've just gone a long way towards proving my point .... sweeping generalizations about benefits claimants, well I never
of course your arument is well backed up by the constant reports and interviews with claimants who claim they can not afford to go to work as not many jobs pay 50k a year
No it's backed up by the FACT that the vast majority of claimants are genuine ... but of course no-one's interested in that,it doesn't fit the agenda does it
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
stuff
there are many genuine claimants staggs I'm sure we would all agree,
but are you saying there is a not a considerable dole culture of those that don't wish to work?
or the fact that disability allowance had become a soft touch offering greater rewards than job seekers allowance
you must be an easy touch for those African princes who's millions are trapped abroad and need a trusting person to help recover it
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
stuff
there are many genuine claimants staggs I'm sure we would all agree,
but are you saying there is a not a considerable dole culture of those that don't wish to work?
or the fact that disability allowance had become a soft touch offering greater rewards than job seekers allowance
you must be an easy touch for those African princes who's millions are trapped abroad and need a trusting person to help recover it
The point is Rob that you and many others only see and acknowledge that small number of claimants who are to all intents and purposes unemployable (yes I do admit there are some). This concentration on a small number of those on benefits is the reason why the prevalent opinion in the press and at large is that the unemployed are scum , the truth is that the majority of those unemployed or claiming disability allowance have little or no choice in the concentration on a small minority allows government to get away with prosecuting punitive policies upon benefits claimants whilst lining the pockets of the already wealthy ... it discourages dissent, it denies the unemployed the ability to make their voice heard.
DWP figures put long term unemployment at million and estimate job vacancies at 476,000 this would suggest that approx. 80% of those unemployed are through no fault of their own going to remain so.
An interesting and ignored point about disability living allowance is that you can claim it if you're working (it is not an unemployment benefit)and is worth UP TO the princely sum of a week.
Employment support allowance Which is an 'unemployment' benefit can reach the outrageous sum of
So Rob tell me more about these millions of scroungers living in the lap of luxury at my 've mentioned before your unique perspective on the unemployed and benefits claimants and how it may be that you have a particularly jaded view of them,I would suggest that you look a little bit beyond those at whom you are pointed.
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
more stuff
i very much doubt that this or the banks cases can be championed to mr average the tax payer
the reason: simple!! far to much pisss taking a willing-ness to hand out easily made tax payers coppers to rescue tax avoiding banks and a soft touch benefit system. I think that there are many in need who could get more or even the REAL NEEDY getting what they deserve would be nice aye
i have said for a long time that the welfare system is out of control. it is also very obvious from reports that a massive amount of peeple currently on disability benefits of one kind or another, are in fact fraudulent claims.
it is also a fact that millions of pounds of taxpayers money is thrown at these peeple who can work, but because of the way the welfare system is, gets away with it for sometimes years. i want a reform of the welfare system but not so as peeple with genuine disabilities lose out.
3 different sources but the same story.
my worry about reforming the benefit system is that there will be some genuine claimants who are deemed fit to work. whatever has been said on this thread, there ARE employers who discriminate against peeple with disabilities. it is a tricky situation, but still many would say it is better to do something, than nothing at all.
it is also a fact that millions of pounds of taxpayers money is thrown at these peeple who can work, but because of the way the welfare system is, gets away with it for sometimes years. i want a reform of the welfare system but not so as peeple with genuine disabilities lose out.
3 different sources but the same story.
my worry about reforming the benefit system is that there will be some genuine claimants who are deemed fit to work. whatever has been said on this thread, there ARE employers who discriminate against peeple with disabilities. it is a tricky situation, but still many would say it is better to do something, than nothing at all.
Quote by star
whatever has been said on this thread, there ARE employers who discriminate against peeple with disabilities. it is a tricky situation, but still many would say it is better to do something, than nothing at all.
You're not suggesting that some employers wilfully break the law, are you?
Quote by GnV
whatever has been said on this thread, there ARE employers who discriminate against peeple with disabilities. it is a tricky situation, but still many would say it is better to do something, than nothing at all.
You're not suggesting that some employers wilfully break the law, are you?
what they dont in france then GNV
if there was no discrimantion the tribunals would be almost empty, but seems they are bursting over with discrimination charges of one sort or another.
but to answer your question GNV,,, you betcha!
Quote by GnV
what they dont in france then GNV
I have no experience on which to draw star...
but with a brand spanking new Socialist Government being put in place, who can say what the future holds?
yes but his ideas of spend, spend and spend again to get france out of the shite, may well mean there is no france at all in a few years time.
the euro is about to fall on its arse and the biggest instigators of the euro france and germany, could end up paying a huge price for its failure.
good luck with that new government GNV, something tells me the frenchos are going to need all the luck they can grab.
Quote by starlightcouple
what they dont in france then GNV
I have no experience on which to draw star...
but with a brand spanking new Socialist Government being put in place, who can say what the future holds?
yes but his ideas of spend, spend and spend again to get france out of the shite, may well mean there is no france at all in a few years time.
the euro is about to fall on its arse and the biggest instigators of the euro france and germany, could end up paying a huge price for its failure.
good luck with that new government GNV, something tells me the frenchos are going to need all the luck they can grab.
I'm not sure where you get the notion of a Hollande spending spree from star.
What he has said is that there should be growth alongside curtailing excessive spending and accelerating cost saving measures such as bringing back French troops from Afghanistan earlier than planned by the outgoing President. In spite of all the rhetoric, I still remain unconvinced about the reasons for massive (ill afforded) spending on these campaigns.
Interestingly, this was supported by Christine Lagarde (MD of the IMF) in an interview broadcast on France24 today.
She said that austerity and growth are not mutually exclusive and this from Nicolas Sarkozy's most trusted Finance Minister before she landed the IMF job 10 months ago. She is acknowledged world wide as being a highly talented economist.
Hollande's plan to encourage growth by limited increased spending in the public sector - principally teaching - is an interesting philosophy and one that will be closely watched. The centre right will be willing it to fail.
Hollande, untainted by past ministerial experience and preconditioning, could just pull it off.
Quote by GnV
Hollande's plan to encourage growth by limited increased spending in the public sector - principally teaching - is an interesting philosophy and one that will be closely watched. The centre right will be willing it to fail. Hollande could just pull it off.
well let us hope he does GNV for the future of france, certainly not for the euro as when greece fail, and they will, the rest of europe could just go down the drain with them.
