I really cannot understand how and why these " camps " are allowed to be set up in the first place.
Surely it is the responsibilty of the French authorities to stop this as soon as it happens?
Not to let it descend into a squalor of filth and disease before anything is done.
A lot of these are seeking asylum in Britain but I always thought that if you was being persecuted in your homeland that you reach the first " safe " country and claim it there. So why are they in a " safe " country in France yet do everything possible to enter Britain illegaly?
Britain has to bear a big part of this as had they of acted harder a few years ago on this kind of immigration, and made it much harder and tougher to enter, maybe this massive problem would not exist now.
None of these people should be able to claim any kind of asylum here as many have had to go through a lot more than just one country to get here, before they start claiming persecution in their own country. That is poppycock as far as I am concerned as they know about either our benefit system here, or their ability to vanish into the job black market, thus doing even more British people out of jobs.
Yes I feel sorry for some of these people because people traffickers exist there and rob them blind to get them into the UK. But the British and French Governments between them are responsible for this mess, but have just brushed it away until at such time it causes a massive problem and a huge embarrassment to the French.
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The Jungle in Calais
Much of this is the fault of the British Government and the agreement at a summit in Le Touquet between Tony Bliar and President Chirac following which the camp at Sanguet was closed but nothing further was done to deal with the already illegally resident population and the continuing influx.
Please also don't forget that recently an international female reporter was duped into meeting some of these "poor unfortunates" on the basis of an exclusive, was drugged and abducted into the "jungle" and serially by them :shock:
The French Police at Calais were absolutely right to deal with this in the way they did.
In the European Parliament in Brussels, the Justice Commissar suggested that the UK should take at least half of the the "jungle" occupants. To his credit, the UK Interior Minister (Alan Johnson - Home Secretary) told Brussels to go fuck themselves and has refused any admission of the undesirables (well, that's what they tell us).
Bravo!
The French authorities are processing the occupants of the "jungle" within the rule of law and are returning them to whence they came from or their port of entry in the EU.
Bliar and Chirac should have done this years ago but in typical "socialist" fashion, they only did half a job leaving others to clean up the mess whilst they lunched in style at the expense of their respective constituents.
Just thank your lucky stars that France now has a centre right President
Please also don't forget that recently an international female reporter was duped into meeting some of these "poor unfortunates" on the basis of an exclusive, was drugged and abducted into the "jungle" and serially by them :shock:
The French Police at Calais were absolutely right to deal with this in the way they did.
In the European Parliament in Brussels, the Justice Commissar suggested that the UK should take at least half of the the "jungle" occupants. To his credit, the UK Interior Minister (Alan Johnson - Home Secretary) told Brussels to go fuck themselves and has refused any admission of the undesirables (well, that's what they tell us).
Bravo!
The French authorities are processing the occupants of the "jungle" within the rule of law and are returning them to whence they came from or their port of entry in the EU.
Bliar and Chirac should have done this years ago but in typical "socialist" fashion, they only did half a job leaving others to clean up the mess whilst they lunched in style at the expense of their respective constituents.
Just thank your lucky stars that France now has a centre right President
Sex God
The only ones permitted to come here are those who already have family living here legally....
The case for them staying has to be proved....
Those simply wishing to seek asylum should do so in the first EU contry they arrive at after leaving their own....
I somehow think the French have let it go on as they all seem to want to get here and so it wont be their problem....
Lets see how many are put forward to prove their case to live here instead of receiving assisted repatriation....
The case for them staying has to be proved....
Those simply wishing to seek asylum should do so in the first EU contry they arrive at after leaving their own....
I somehow think the French have let it go on as they all seem to want to get here and so it wont be their problem....
Lets see how many are put forward to prove their case to live here instead of receiving assisted repatriation....
Sex God
Like claiming in the first safe country you reach....
Not travelling half way across Europe to get to the place that has the biggest handouts....
Not travelling half way across Europe to get to the place that has the biggest handouts....
Yes Steve I accept that there is such a policy however if each memeber state treated such people the same there would be no such incentive to cruise europe.
And I have to say, as a prospective employer, somebody whos had the balls and gumption to travel half way across the world to help themselves out of a shit situation would probably find me interested.
So perhaps the French are not acting in their own best interests.
And I have to say, as a prospective employer, somebody whos had the balls and gumption to travel half way across the world to help themselves out of a shit situation would probably find me interested.
So perhaps the French are not acting in their own best interests.
Lets be honest here eh?
These people are no more being persecuted than I am. It is any old excuse to get into Britain.
As some of them said yesterday " we want to go to England for they give you a house and lots of money ".
Until the crap welfare system is sorted out and nobody is entitled to jack shit until they have been here for a minimum of one year, this will continue.
They want to come here for the benefits....period!!
They even have maps detailing the route to Croydon, then apply for asylum. What a lot of old bollocks. If asylum is REALLY what they want, they would have shouted it at the first safe country they came too, not in Britain where we have constant hot and cold running benefits, for all who don't deserve it.
They should stop all immigration until we know how many are bloody over here illegally as well. There is probably millions, no wonder the benefit systems payouts have shot up under Labour fourfold since they came to power.
Blair and his cronies have a shit load to answer too and Blair will not upset the French...he don't want to jeopardize his Presidency now.....does he?
These people are no more being persecuted than I am. It is any old excuse to get into Britain.
As some of them said yesterday " we want to go to England for they give you a house and lots of money ".
Until the crap welfare system is sorted out and nobody is entitled to jack shit until they have been here for a minimum of one year, this will continue.
They want to come here for the benefits....period!!
They even have maps detailing the route to Croydon, then apply for asylum. What a lot of old bollocks. If asylum is REALLY what they want, they would have shouted it at the first safe country they came too, not in Britain where we have constant hot and cold running benefits, for all who don't deserve it.
They should stop all immigration until we know how many are bloody over here illegally as well. There is probably millions, no wonder the benefit systems payouts have shot up under Labour fourfold since they came to power.
Blair and his cronies have a shit load to answer too and Blair will not upset the French...he don't want to jeopardize his Presidency now.....does he?
Quote by benrums0n
Yes Steve I accept that there is such a policy however if each memeber state treated such people the same there would be no such incentive to cruise europe.
And I have to say, as a prospective employer, somebody whos had the balls and gumption to travel half way across the world to help themselves out of a shit situation would probably find me interested.
So perhaps the French are not acting in their own best interests.
I think the French are acting in their own best interests here.
As kent says, there should be a minimum period of (legal) residency before the benefits system kicks in. That is the position now with other Europeans who (after certain conditions are met) have residency entitlements to settle in France. Tell me ben, why should these non-Europeans benefit from the public purse to which they have not contributed?
France protects her own people; everyone else knows that it's protectionist policies favour jobs for French nationals and to hell with the rest
At least they are honest about it. Like it or not, they walk the talk unlike someone else who I wont mention who thumps the table declaring British jobs for British people and then signs a contract for Government jobs to be outsourced to India :shock:
Sex God
Quote by benrums0n
And I have to say, as a prospective employer, somebody whos had the balls and gumption to travel half way across the world to help themselves out of a shit situation would probably find me interested.
So perhaps the French are not acting in their own best interests.
But you wouldn't be able to employ them as they most likely would have no valid claim to settle here and you wouldn't want to pay them cash in hand so they can do what thousands of others do and pay nowt into the pot would you ;-)
Quote by Steve
And I have to say, as a prospective employer, somebody whos had the balls and gumption to travel half way across the world to help themselves out of a shit situation would probably find me interested.
So perhaps the French are not acting in their own best interests.
But you wouldn't be able to employ them as they most likely would have no valid claim to settle here and you wouldn't want to pay them cash in hand so they can do what thousands of others do and pay nowt into the pot would you ;-)
Of course he wouldn't, we all know Ben's take on tax evading employers!!!
We also know that people who do not work and pay no tax, have a different evaluation of the whole system.
Just like a friend of mine who has a " bad back syndrome " yet manages quite nicely to fix cars and fences. He adopts the same attitudes as a lot of others do, but as a non tax payer I always point out that he is not contributing so will obviously have different values than I do as a taxpayer.
The best thing the authorities can do is the first sign of any camp being set up, to send in the heavy mob and destroy it. That is the only way these people will understand we mean business.
As a taxpayer I am sick and tired of OUR money being handed out willy nilly to people who do not deserve it! I don't contribute to see my money being spent on people who only want to take take take.
The welfare system and the immigration system needs to be overhauled, knocked down and then to start again. Immigration ( illegal immigration ) is a huge problem and is putting massive strains on our public services, and British jobs for British people.
Just like a friend of mine who has a " bad back syndrome " yet manages quite nicely to fix cars and fences. He adopts the same attitudes as a lot of others do, but as a non tax payer I always point out that he is not contributing so will obviously have different values than I do as a taxpayer.
The best thing the authorities can do is the first sign of any camp being set up, to send in the heavy mob and destroy it. That is the only way these people will understand we mean business.
As a taxpayer I am sick and tired of OUR money being handed out willy nilly to people who do not deserve it! I don't contribute to see my money being spent on people who only want to take take take.
The welfare system and the immigration system needs to be overhauled, knocked down and then to start again. Immigration ( illegal immigration ) is a huge problem and is putting massive strains on our public services, and British jobs for British people.
Quote by benrums0n
Gnv I think the reason these people have a right to benefits is becasue they are people.
Steve I was of course referring to those individuals who were granted employment rights.
Max, nice jibe although a contribution to the debate is more welcome.
Well send an e mail to THEIR government, and tell them to pay them some money, as it is THEIR PEOPLE. They ain't bugger all to do with us.
Am sure Benny there is an organisation out there where YOU can make a donation if you so desire.
My motto has always been " look after our own, before you look after others ". Seems a very fair and logical thing.
Sex God
Quote by benrums0n
Gnv I think the reason these people have a right to benefits is becasue they are people.
Would you mind telling that to the sarcastic twat I have just been spoken down to by on the phone during the course of my interrogation as to the validity of my claim for JSA.......
I was made redundant a week ago .....
Quote by Steve
Gnv I think the reason these people have a right to benefits is becasue they are people.
Would you mind telling that to the sarcastic twat I have just been spoken down to by on the phone during the course of my interrogation as to the validity of my claim for JSA.......
I was made redundant a week ago.....
I'm so sorry to hear that Steve..
you really are having a shit time of it at the moment :upset:
Sorry to hear that Steve.
YOU are the kind of person who should get the money, and the help.
BUT you will no doubt have to almost crawl on your hands and knees to get any. But if you was an illegal they would have the envelope at the ready full of pound notes for you.
Fair?.....You bloody bet it ain't mate.
Hope you find work soon.
YOU are the kind of person who should get the money, and the help.
BUT you will no doubt have to almost crawl on your hands and knees to get any. But if you was an illegal they would have the envelope at the ready full of pound notes for you.
Fair?.....You bloody bet it ain't mate.
Hope you find work soon.
Quote by benrums0n
Gnv I think the reason these people have a right to benefits is becasue they are people.
Steve I was of course referring to those individuals who were granted employment rights.
Max, nice jibe although a contribution to the debate is more welcome.
Hmmmmmmmm, you mean I should have posted something like this?
"No Kent not in the necessary words of one syllable".
Practice what you preach Ben
Sex God
I am confident I will find work GnV and Kenty as I am not the kind to want to live on handouts but prefer to be out there actively doing something but thanks for your thoughts both :thumbup:
The reality of the matter, and some might not like it, is that Britain is overpopulated, has enormous unemployment, is hundreds of billions of pounds in debt, has a huge housing shortage, and both our health and education systems are in crisis. Our young people are being sent overseas to fight wars that are non of our business, I,m sure the Americans love it that we back them up in all their tyrannical conflicts but they are a fickle lot as we found out when we let Gadafi's pal go free. Of course the same government who got us into this mess, who sent our children away to return dead or missing limbs etc, who promised to put our health and education first, etc, etc, are still operating an open door policy on immigration and asylum. We have even got teams of football "fans", a lot of whom were banned from football matches, protesting in the streets in highly volatile areas about the rise of Islamic fundamentalism, and it is going to get worse.
Oh, and while everyone is hell bent on venting their rage against the immigrants and asylum seekers for being here, the bastards who let them in are pretending to give a shit.
If I had the money I would emigrate, and it wouldn't be to anywhere in Europe or America.
That's this weeks public rant over, anyone can PM me if they want any more!
Oh, and while everyone is hell bent on venting their rage against the immigrants and asylum seekers for being here, the bastards who let them in are pretending to give a shit.
If I had the money I would emigrate, and it wouldn't be to anywhere in Europe or America.
That's this weeks public rant over, anyone can PM me if they want any more!
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
Lets be honest here eh?
These people are no more being persecuted than I am. It is any old excuse to get into Britain.
As some of them said yesterday " we want to go to England for they give you a house and lots of money ".
Until the crap welfare system is sorted out and nobody is entitled to jack shit until they have been here for a minimum of one year, this will continue.
They want to come here for the benefits....period!!
They even have maps detailing the route to Croydon, then apply for asylum. What a lot of old bollocks. If asylum is REALLY what they want, they would have shouted it at the first safe country they came too, not in Britain where we have constant hot and cold running benefits, for all who don't deserve it.
They should stop all immigration until we know how many are bloody over here illegally as well. There is probably millions, no wonder the benefit systems payouts have shot up under Labour fourfold since they came to power.
Blair and his cronies have a shit load to answer too and Blair will not upset the French...he don't want to jeopardize his Presidency now.....does he?
come on kent....go stage an emigration camp on the road 2 dover......they can send us off to somewhere thats probably way better than britain......
think of the cost of living anywhere out of euro.....
Sex God
The Jungle, just to through a spanner in the works, was apparently full of Afghans, and Iraqis, according to the papers I've read? Let's leave aside the whole first port of call for asylum . . .
There is a school of thought that says that 'If you break it, you buy it'
Do we have a genuine responsibility here?
I don't know the timescale of this particular shift in population? :?
N x x x ;)
There is a school of thought that says that 'If you break it, you buy it'
Do we have a genuine responsibility here?
I don't know the timescale of this particular shift in population? :? N x x x ;)
Quote by neilinleeds
The Jungle, just to through a spanner in the works, was apparently full of Afghans, and Iraqis, according to the papers I've read? Let's leave aside the whole first port of call for asylum . . .
There is a school of thought that says that 'If you break it, you buy it'
Do we have a genuine responsibility here?
N x x x ;)
Why? :dunno:
Why should the UK especially have a responsibility for the residents of the jungle?
Just because they are Iraqis and or Afghans?
Don't other European States also have task forces there as well?
How about the Americans leaving banana boats for them to cross the Atlantic in? After all, if they are seeking asylum in the UK because of these conflicts, this was Bush's war on terror (allegedly).
Sex God
Quote by GnV
The Jungle, just to throw a spanner in the works, was apparently full of Afghans, and Iraqis, according to the papers I've read? Let's leave aside the whole first port of call for asylum . . .
There is a school of thought that says that 'If you break it, you buy it'
Do we have a genuine responsibility here?
N x x x ;)
Why? :dunno:
Why should the UK especially have a responsibility for the residents of the jungle?
Erm, because they are apparently Afghans and Iraqis mostly, and apparently, the U.K. specifically is waging war in their host nations, primarily cos their governments don't quite understand the concept of human rights and what have you, allegedly, and the end result of that conflict is the displacement of civilian populations, the imposition of Al-Qaeda-esque Sharia Law that we all get so worked up about, and are doing our best to defeat, and the arming to the teeth of warlords like Moqtada Al-Sadr cos he's, like, sooooo much better than the last incumbent!
I dunno if they left their host nations before we waded in, or whether they have legitimate asylum claims? It's a quick and dirty thought experiment. I don't know the answer to the question? I'm genuinely asking, does the fact that we have bombers in the air, and troops on the ground ((( In support of an Afghani PM who thinks marital is all fine and dandy! ))) in any way make us a bit responsible for displaced civilians, or not? Morally, tactically , strategically, economically, whatever? :dunno: :?
Quote by GnV
How about the Americans leaving banana boats for them to cross the Atlantic in? After all, if they are seeking asylum in the UK because of these conflicts, this was Bush's war on terror (allegedly).
The failure of others to do what's right as an excuse for our own failure to do what's right is not a particularly good argument. Surrendering your moral high ground cos others have lower standards than yourself, well, I s'pose you could make that argument if it appeals to you? It don't appeal to me all that much? :?
N x x x ;)
Quote by neilinleeds
The Jungle, just to throw a spanner in the works, was apparently full of Afghans, and Iraqis, according to the papers I've read? Let's leave aside the whole first port of call for asylum . . .
There is a school of thought that says that 'If you break it, you buy it'
Do we have a genuine responsibility here?
N x x x ;)
Why? :dunno:
Why should the UK especially have a responsibility for the residents of the jungle?
Erm, because they are apparently Afghans and Iraqis mostly, and apparently, the U.K. specifically is waging war in their host nations, primarily cos their governments don't quite understand the concept of human rights and what have you, allegedly, and the end result of that conflict is the displacement of civilian populations, the imposition of Al-Qaeda-esque Sharia Law that we all get so worked up about, and are doing our best to defeat, and the arming to the teeth of warlords like Moqtada Al-Sadr cos he's, like, sooooo much better than the last incumbent!
I dunno if they left their host nations before we waded in, or whether they have legitimate asylum claims? It's a quick and dirty thought experiment. I don't know the answer to the question? I'm genuinely asking, does the fact that we have bombers in the air, and troops on the ground ((( In support of an Afghani PM who thinks marital is all fine and dandy! ))) in any way make us a bit responsible for displaced civilians, or not? Morally, tactically , strategically, economically, whatever? :dunno: :?
N x x x ;)
No - emphatically, no
European troops, including UK troops are there as a UN task force. This is NOT Britain's war.
The Western presence in Afghanistan is authorised under Chapter VII of the UN Charter:
Article 51 of Chapter VII guarantees “the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a member of the United Nations†– in this case, the al-Qaeda attacks against the U.S. and other countries launched from within the former Taliban administration in Afghanistan. As the UN and the ISAF members have repeatedly asserted, preventing a future Sept. 11 is the raison d'être of the Afghan war.
I think the same thing applied to the invasion of Iraq - albeit tentatively since there was no attack by Iraq on a member state but a perceived one in the mind of Bush who hadn't learnt how to spell Afghanistan at the time.
Sex God
Quote by GnV
No - emphatically, no
Why?
Seriously!
I'm genuinely asking you GnV to explain your emphatic no to me.
N x x x ;)
Quote by neilinleeds
No - emphatically, no
Why?
Seriously!
I'm genuinely asking you GnV to explain your emphatic no to me.
N x x x ;)
International Law doesn't provide for it but it does provide for refugees exiting a State where they are in some sort of threat to declare themselves as such at the port of entry in the EU. Calais is not the port of entry.. it's their intended port of exit to the lush and green lands of Britain. Land of milk and money... well, that's how they see it.
Sex God
I'm afraid I'm inclined to agree with GnV here....
As I said earlier they should apply for asylum in the first EU country they enter and not the one they would like to end up in...
As I said earlier they should apply for asylum in the first EU country they enter and not the one they would like to end up in...
Quote by neilinleeds
How about the Americans leaving banana boats for them to cross the Atlantic in? After all, if they are seeking asylum in the UK because of these conflicts, this was Bush's war on terror (allegedly).
The failure of others to do what's right as an excuse for our own failure to do what's right is not a particularly good argument. Surrendering your moral high ground cos others have lower standards than yourself, well, I s'pose you could make that argument if it appeals to you? It don't appeal to me all that much?
N x x x ;)
I'm only applying your principle here. They broke it, so how come they don't get to buy it as well, as you so eloquently put it
The French have done nothing wrong in "processing" these illegal immigrants in accordance with the rule of law. Britain has done nothing wrong in refusing to take them.
I'm sorry NIL, but I am now struggling to see your point if you have one
Perhaps it's your turn to explain where your at on this.
Quote by Steve
I'm afraid I'm inclined to agree with GnV here....
As I said earlier they should apply for asylum in the first EU country they enter and not the one they would like to end up in...
Ah but Steve...what is that countries benefits like?
They are coming here in their zillions for they have heard of our hot and cold benefits. The free healthcare, the schools who HAVE to bend over backwards to take these kids in, who btw cannot speak a word of English!
The housing, the money,the healthcare, the every bloody thing. All of which the taxpayer has NO say over. The money that is being spent must run into millions of pounds, our money.
IF and I do not believe for a second these people are being persecuted, but IF they were, why are they traveling half way around the world to get to Britain? Are some so naive to think it is anything other than the benefits they have heard of?
Those people in France should NOT under ANY circumstances be allowed in.....we are full here. We have mass unemployment, one of the biggest recessions going, healthcare that cannot cope. Public services at breaking point, local councils who have no money. The money being spent just by the police on interpreters is frightening.
So sorry Neil no they should not be allowed in, it is not Britains problem. It never was and that still remains now.
Send them back to the FIRST port of safety!
