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Urban fox attack
Sex God
interesting comment from the RSPCA spokeswoman that the fox tried to bite the baby because of fear.
let's try hungry and the baby was an easy food source i don't see many urban foxes that fear humans anymore,its simply that most daft humans leave food by the back door for them
most urban foxes would no longer survive in the wild so a cull is the only option
other than that we clean up our rubbish and stop feeding the scavengers
let's try hungry and the baby was an easy food source i don't see many urban foxes that fear humans anymore,its simply that most daft humans leave food by the back door for them
most urban foxes would no longer survive in the wild so a cull is the only option
other than that we clean up our rubbish and stop feeding the scavengers
Once again rob, it proves that these 'do-gooder’ townies should stick to what they know (usually fuck all) and leave the management of the countryside and fauna to those with the correct knowledge and experience.
Sticking bowls of milk out for feral cats and food trays for foxes is absolute madness.
Sticking bowls of milk out for feral cats and food trays for foxes is absolute madness.
Absolutely right there flower; they just don't think of the consequences.
I have read on expat sites about idiots picking up apparently abandoned your birds (errr, feathered variety!) on their drive and then taking them inside to coax them back into life. The most wrong thing you can do. The parents are probably watching and will then abandon the fledgling.
Why can't people get it into their thick skull just to leave nature to its own devices and stop interfering in matters they know nothing about?
I have read on expat sites about idiots picking up apparently abandoned your birds (errr, feathered variety!) on their drive and then taking them inside to coax them back into life. The most wrong thing you can do. The parents are probably watching and will then abandon the fledgling.
Why can't people get it into their thick skull just to leave nature to its own devices and stop interfering in matters they know nothing about?
Sex God
I'd be intrigued to know what method the council would use to cull the urban fox population. Hunting with horse and hound is illegal, snares and poisoning would kill other animals/possibly people, and shooting them doesn't sound like the safest thing to do for public safety.
Sex God
Quote by Trevaunance
I'd be intrigued to know what method the council would use to cull the urban fox population. Hunting with horse and hound is illegal, snares and poisoning would kill other animals/possibly people, and shooting them doesn't sound like the safest thing to do for public safety.
There are only two methods open to them; (with (a) rifle or (b) shotgun);
(with legal snares or live cage traps).
Sex God
Thanks for that blue. I can't see that a cull would be likely to use firearms in an urban environment. Snares would more likely than not catch other animals, so I guess cages would have to be the method used. Has there been an urban cull anywhere in the UK before?
Sex God
Most cities in southern England have urban foxes, as do a few cities further north. For most towns and cities the fox population reached its carrying capacity (ie: the maximum number of animals the habitat will sustain) many years ago and contrary to popular belief, the population is stable, with no significant increases or decreases. There are only a few cities where fox numbers are probably still increasing and these are ones that have only recently been colonised.
Controlling urban foxes is difficult, expensive and never successful. In the past, a number of local authorities tried this, particularly in London but most have now given up any form of fox control. The problem is that foxes have been in urban areas for so long that they have reached a state of equilibrium and regulate the size of their own population. A large proportion of the foxes do not breed each year and litter sizes (average just under five) are comparatively small.
The moment you increase the mortality rate, the foxes compensate by increasing the number of vixens that breed. So you do not reduce the number of foxes in the area. What you do achieve, however, is a disruption of the fox population, so that new foxes move in to try to take over the territory of the animal that has been killed. Invariably more than one fox moves in; there are fights over the territory and hence more noise and fouling of gardens. This is because calling and scent marking with both urine and faeces are used to lay claim to a territory. On top of this, having more itinerant foxes in an area is likely to lead to more killing of pets and more general nuisance.
Not only is urban fox control unlikely to achieve anything, it is both difficult and very expensive. Shooting is obviously not acceptable in urban areas, as is snaring and so only live trapping is left. The fox's reputation for cunning is well earned; it is very difficult to get one to walk into a cage trap, even if there is a really tasty delicacy inside. Catching the first fox may take three weeks or longer. However, foxes live in family groups, with an average size of about three adults and four or five cubs. Catching the second fox is harder still and it is virtually impossible to catch them all. Long before you get near this goal, new foxes are moving in to colonise the vacant niche.
So at best, only a very temporary reduction in the number of foxes is achieved for a considerable expenditure of time and effort.
It is also a misconception that you can move a wild animal to a new area, release it and it will instantly settle down and live happily ever after. Nature just isn't like that and releasing animals in a new area is a very tricky operation. Since dumping animals like this is clearly inhumane, such action could well be an offence under the Abandonment of Animals Act 1960.
If you are unfortunate to have foxes in your garden, then the following advice can be considered:
- Remove the attraction.
- Habitats.
- Make it unacceptable to the fox.
Any chemical used as a repellent is covered under The Control of Pesticides Regulations 1986 where it states, that only approved chemicals may be used. The use of non-approved products such as creosote and diesel oil is not permitted by law. The use of these types of non-approved products can be very dangerous to other pets such as cats and dogs. Prosecutions can result against anyone who is found using such products.
Controlling urban foxes is difficult, expensive and never successful. In the past, a number of local authorities tried this, particularly in London but most have now given up any form of fox control. The problem is that foxes have been in urban areas for so long that they have reached a state of equilibrium and regulate the size of their own population. A large proportion of the foxes do not breed each year and litter sizes (average just under five) are comparatively small.
The moment you increase the mortality rate, the foxes compensate by increasing the number of vixens that breed. So you do not reduce the number of foxes in the area. What you do achieve, however, is a disruption of the fox population, so that new foxes move in to try to take over the territory of the animal that has been killed. Invariably more than one fox moves in; there are fights over the territory and hence more noise and fouling of gardens. This is because calling and scent marking with both urine and faeces are used to lay claim to a territory. On top of this, having more itinerant foxes in an area is likely to lead to more killing of pets and more general nuisance.
Not only is urban fox control unlikely to achieve anything, it is both difficult and very expensive. Shooting is obviously not acceptable in urban areas, as is snaring and so only live trapping is left. The fox's reputation for cunning is well earned; it is very difficult to get one to walk into a cage trap, even if there is a really tasty delicacy inside. Catching the first fox may take three weeks or longer. However, foxes live in family groups, with an average size of about three adults and four or five cubs. Catching the second fox is harder still and it is virtually impossible to catch them all. Long before you get near this goal, new foxes are moving in to colonise the vacant niche.
So at best, only a very temporary reduction in the number of foxes is achieved for a considerable expenditure of time and effort.
It is also a misconception that you can move a wild animal to a new area, release it and it will instantly settle down and live happily ever after. Nature just isn't like that and releasing animals in a new area is a very tricky operation. Since dumping animals like this is clearly inhumane, such action could well be an offence under the Abandonment of Animals Act 1960.
If you are unfortunate to have foxes in your garden, then the following advice can be considered:
- Remove the attraction.
- Habitats.
- Make it unacceptable to the fox.
Any chemical used as a repellent is covered under The Control of Pesticides Regulations 1986 where it states, that only approved chemicals may be used. The use of non-approved products such as creosote and diesel oil is not permitted by law. The use of these types of non-approved products can be very dangerous to other pets such as cats and dogs. Prosecutions can result against anyone who is found using such products.
Sex God
Not to my knowledge Trev, I cant see that a cull is likely unless these cases become more frequent.
There are things people can do for them selves, things like stop feeding the Urban fox, cleanliness could also help, such things as food waist badly stored around a property will encourage them into and around your property. Fencing, make fences as secure as is possible. Foxes are opportunist and will take the easy option, make your garden more secure than others and this could help.
Most of these urban foxes are looking for an easy meal, most have lost their natural ability to hunt, so as house hold bins become harder to obtain a meal from, these animals will be increasingly be looking for a meal else where, some will be desperate.
When animals with no natural predators become overpopulated their life is no longer a good one, a combination of overpopulation and meals becoming harder to get is possibly a contributing factor of these attacks. This is just one reason why management of animals can play an important role in their own well being as well as ours.
Over population leads to desperation, sickness, and slow miserable death
There are things people can do for them selves, things like stop feeding the Urban fox, cleanliness could also help, such things as food waist badly stored around a property will encourage them into and around your property. Fencing, make fences as secure as is possible. Foxes are opportunist and will take the easy option, make your garden more secure than others and this could help.
Most of these urban foxes are looking for an easy meal, most have lost their natural ability to hunt, so as house hold bins become harder to obtain a meal from, these animals will be increasingly be looking for a meal else where, some will be desperate.
When animals with no natural predators become overpopulated their life is no longer a good one, a combination of overpopulation and meals becoming harder to get is possibly a contributing factor of these attacks. This is just one reason why management of animals can play an important role in their own well being as well as ours.
Over population leads to desperation, sickness, and slow miserable death
At present the greatest danger of urban children being mauled probably comes from their pet dogs. 2 very well publicised fox attacks in the last few years, how many dog attacks? Before spending a lot of money culling urban foxes maybe we should cull a few dogs, and their owners where possible.
Quote by northwest-cpl
At present the greatest danger of urban children being mauled probably comes from their pet dogs. 2 very well publicised fox attacks in the last few years, how many dog attacks? Before spending a lot of money culling urban foxes maybe we should cull a few dogs, and their owners where possible.
I am glad you mentioned this northwest.
Also Boris the menace as London Mayor, should talk less and do more action.
Sex God
Quote by northwest-cpl
At present the greatest danger of urban children being mauled probably comes from their pet dogs. 2 very well publicised fox attacks in the last few years, how many dog attacks? Before spending a lot of money culling urban foxes maybe we should cull a few dogs, and their owners where possible.
Here is a small first step
Quote by GnV
I'm sure well get the "official" view from star sometime soon flower with a thread full of links as to every reason why it wasn't - indeed couldn't have one of those nice cuddly little basil brush characters that are so deserving of protection from the RSPCA :grin:
You are a cad GnV.
Anyway back to the issue. A fox entered the home of a human and bit a child causing it to lose on of it's fingers. Sure a tragic case and one where I would ask what was a back door doing open with a young child in the house. But that being a side issue, how many fox attacks have there been in the UK in say the last 5 years GnV? Seeing as you seem to be the spokesperson for the Countryside alliance on here, have you any idea as to how many attacks? How many deaths perhaps?
A lot of the time GnV you talk a lot of common sense and I rather admire you, and then on the rare occasion, like this you then go and spoil it all by talking a right load of old bollox. Keep to French and political issues Gnv as you sure know naff all about the countryside or indeed the fox population. Sorry if that sounds a bit forthright but Gnv REALLY.:doh:
The answer to my questions are.............??
Quote by Bluefish2009
Here is a small first step
All very lovely in the real world Blue, but what about the irresponsible dog owners out there? There are a ton of them and if it was just responsible dog owners in this country, we would have no need for laws such as this. So if these laws are brought in for the irresponsible and shit dog owners, what makes anyone think they will comply with these laws? The responsible dog owner will spend the money and get this done, but most responsible dog owners already have.
Why would an irresponsible dog owner give a toss about what the law says?
Sex God
Attacks are rare,
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
Here is a small first step
All very lovely in the real world Blue, but what about the irresponsible dog owners out there? There are a ton of them and if it was just responsible dog owners in this country, we would have no need for laws such as this. So if these laws are brought in for the irresponsible and shit dog owners, what makes anyone think they will comply with these laws? The responsible dog owner will spend the money and get this done, but most responsible dog owners already have.
Why would an irresponsible dog owner give a toss about what the law says?
This is the problem with all laws though Star, but that is not a good reason for not introducing a law.
Both my dogs are chipped.
Further to your point though, the silly hand gun law or ban only stopped responsible owners of sporting hund guns, not one of those who illegally held a gun handed theirs in
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
I'm sure well get the "official" view from star sometime soon flower with a thread full of links as to every reason why it wasn't - indeed couldn't have one of those nice cuddly little basil brush characters that are so deserving of protection from the RSPCA :grin:
You are a cad GnV.
Anyway back to the issue. A fox entered the home of a human and bit a child causing it to lose on of it's fingers. Sure a tragic case and one where I would ask what was a back door doing open with a young child in the house. But that being a side issue, how many fox attacks have there been in the UK in say the last 5 years GnV? Seeing as you seem to be the spokesperson for the Countryside allianceon here, have you any idea as to how many attacks? How many deaths perhaps?
A lot of the time GnV you talk a lot of common sense and I rather admire you, and then on the rare occasion, like this you then go and spoil it all by talking a right load of old bollox. Keep to French and political issues Gnv as you sure know naff all about the countryside or indeed the fox population. Sorry if that sounds a bit forthright but Gnv REALLY.:doh:
The answer to my questions are.............??
I am not sure the countryside alliance holds a strong view on rural foxes?
Blue I have had dogs ( all chipped ) and currently have two cats ( both chipped ). I always had a dog license when they were around, and then the Government stopped that as people were just not bothering and it was costing more money to have the licenses than it was getting in in money.
Like with most laws Blue you do not need to worry about the law abiding people out there, only the people who stick two fingers up to the law. Those people do not care about a law to tag their dogs as the punishment if caught is in most cases laughable and not really enforceable. This is just another example of a Minister trying to do something that lacks any clout at all.
Sorry go to go for a while as I have a couple of foxes to feed at the bottom of my garden.
Like with most laws Blue you do not need to worry about the law abiding people out there, only the people who stick two fingers up to the law. Those people do not care about a law to tag their dogs as the punishment if caught is in most cases laughable and not really enforceable. This is just another example of a Minister trying to do something that lacks any clout at all.
Sorry go to go for a while as I have a couple of foxes to feed at the bottom of my garden.
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
Blue I have had dogs ( all chipped ) and currently have two cats ( both chipped ). I always had a dog license when they were around, and then the Government stopped that as people were just not bothering and it was costing more money to have the licenses than it was getting in in money.
Like with most laws Blue you do not need to worry about the law abiding people out there, only the people who stick two fingers up to the law. Those people do not care about a law to tag their dogs as the punishment if caught is in most cases laughable and not really enforceable. This is just another example of a Minister trying to do something that lacks any clout at all.
Sorry go to go for a while as I have a couple of foxes to feed at the bottom of my garden.
Mind them little pinkys Star
But of coarse what may be a joke to you is very serious for one family
Quote by Bluefish2009
Mind them little pinkys Star
They are wild animals and as such need to be treated with caution.
Quote by Bluefish2009
But of coarse what may be a joke to you is very serious for one family
I never said this story was a joke Blue, I said it was a tragic case if you look at what I wrote.
It is certainly no more serious than the thousands of children every year who get bitten by those wonderful little things, called the family dog. A couple of fox attacks a year and Boris Johnson and the rest call for action, and thousands and thousands of dog attacks every year and they call for dog chipping.
Nutters. There are a lot of terrifying domestic dogs out there and people do or say very little, and yet the fox with a reported dozen attacks in the last five years hits the headlines.
One sided biased bile. Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
Mind them little pinkys Star
They are wild animals and as such need to be treated with caution.
Quote by Bluefish2009
But of coarse what may be a joke to you is very serious for one family
I never said this story was a joke Blue, I said it was a tragic case if you look at what I wrote.
It is certainly no more serious than the thousands of children every year who get bitten by those wonderful little things, called the family dog. A couple of fox attacks a year and Boris Johnson and the rest call for action, and thousands and thousands of dog attacks every year and they call for dog chipping.
Nutters. There are a lot of terrifying domestic dogs out there and people do or say very little, and yet the fox with a reported dozen attacks in the last five years hits the headlines.
One sided biased bile.I have read all you have wrote
I have not said I support Boris or any urban fox control
The fact that people are attacked by family pets does not make this case or any other less relavent to the familys in my view
The point is star that most people would expect a family pet like a dog or cat to be in the domestic environs but not a wild animal like a fox.
The people to blame here are those who think cuddly little foxes are really harmless and put a tray of food out for them. On the other hand, in the city, people are trying to rear their own food with chicken coops and these nice cuddly harmless things are showing the reality of the countryside.
And just sometimes, in place of rearing nice chickens, people raise children (shock horror) and those nice basil brush cuddly things come and steal them instead!
And who the fuck are you to say that people can't keep doors and windows open?
When I was a child, my parents put me outside the house in a pram so as to let me get some fresh air.
Mind you, in those days it was a lot safer to do so as the local hunt took care of the foxes
And my parents didn't raid the supermarket and buy twice the amount of food required for the family, just to dump it in black sacks after it had gone rotten to encourage vermin.
Oh yeah, and in those days, the bin men came every week....
The people to blame here are those who think cuddly little foxes are really harmless and put a tray of food out for them. On the other hand, in the city, people are trying to rear their own food with chicken coops and these nice cuddly harmless things are showing the reality of the countryside.
And just sometimes, in place of rearing nice chickens, people raise children (shock horror) and those nice basil brush cuddly things come and steal them instead!
And who the fuck are you to say that people can't keep doors and windows open?
When I was a child, my parents put me outside the house in a pram so as to let me get some fresh air.
Mind you, in those days it was a lot safer to do so as the local hunt took care of the foxes
And my parents didn't raid the supermarket and buy twice the amount of food required for the family, just to dump it in black sacks after it had gone rotten to encourage vermin.
Oh yeah, and in those days, the bin men came every week....
Firstly with dogs being chipped. I think it is excellent idea. Quite cheap in reality....and a vet can check everytime a dog comes into surgery if chipped. And if not.... then chip the dog and bill the owner.
as for this fox attack....i await further information. I mean would you leave back door open and a baby alone in a cot in another room ? Makes me wonder if they actually have there own dog....and maybe something happened. I can see a fox being in kitchen where smells of food are even....but find it unusuall to think it would climb up the stairs, and into a babies bedroom. I was always under illusion that animals always went for the easy food source.
as say....I will wait with an open mind. Think there may be more to come out of this yet !
as for this fox attack....i await further information. I mean would you leave back door open and a baby alone in a cot in another room ? Makes me wonder if they actually have there own dog....and maybe something happened. I can see a fox being in kitchen where smells of food are even....but find it unusuall to think it would climb up the stairs, and into a babies bedroom. I was always under illusion that animals always went for the easy food source.
as say....I will wait with an open mind. Think there may be more to come out of this yet !
Quote by GnV
However, some treat the fox like an extended pet and this is where the problems start. For others, the fox is a pest and should be got rid of any way possible.
:thumbup:
I put that link as it gave both sides and as so predictable you only picked up on the side you think is right. But giving the other side a bit is also good.
'So the best thing to do is to remember that it is a wild animal, protect vulnerable pets and livestock (chicken wire may keep chicken in, but it won’t keep foxes out!) and use certain forms of deterrence if a particular house owner wants them kept out of their garden'.
Maybe leaving doors open with babies asleep in the house should also have been in the article, but maybe the author thought that would have been an obvious thing to do?
'The fox is handsome animal and inviting wildlife into a back garden is a delight for many people'.
'We should not try to take away its wildness – to do otherwise is to remove that very thing to which we are attracted'.
Another view in the interests of fairness. :thumbup:
"'The fox is handsome animal and inviting wildlife into a back garden is a delight for many people'. "
So is a Bengal Tiger but you don't really suggest that people should just blindly follow James Barrington's musings, do you
If you want to go see wild animals in their habitat, go see wild animals in their habitat.
So is a Bengal Tiger but you don't really suggest that people should just blindly follow James Barrington's musings, do you
If you want to go see wild animals in their habitat, go see wild animals in their habitat.
Sexlightened
I've read and digested the entire article GNV, quite a reasonable argument.
What he is saying is by "accident" our modern day life has created a new breed of Fox .. the Urban Fox. What he doesn't advocate is feeding it on purpose as some do but to realise that unfortunatley we have created a new breed of Fox, that should be treated as another wild animal to be admired.
Unfortunatley for the child recently we have created a monster that some see as another animal to be kind to.
We need to be cruel to be kind and let nature take it's cause with the survival or not of these animals ... but i fear it's too late and the Urban Fox is here to stay.
What he is saying is by "accident" our modern day life has created a new breed of Fox .. the Urban Fox. What he doesn't advocate is feeding it on purpose as some do but to realise that unfortunatley we have created a new breed of Fox, that should be treated as another wild animal to be admired.
Unfortunatley for the child recently we have created a monster that some see as another animal to be kind to.
We need to be cruel to be kind and let nature take it's cause with the survival or not of these animals ... but i fear it's too late and the Urban Fox is here to stay.
I agree suedehead that the article was a reasoned argument and my quote was from his conclusions.
But what we mustn't do is give encouragement to those who think it might be right to feed them. It isn't. However, it's a bit like slamming the stable door after the horse has bolted now as these creatures find diminishing food stocks in the urban environs and so 'hunt' food elsewhere - in the urban environs.
Returning them to a wild state sadly is no longer an option but finding other ways of controlling the pest has to be found otherwise, if we follow star's advice, we will all become prisoners in our own homes, not daring to open a window or door for fear of our pet budgie become a tasty morsel or worse, our 4 day old child.
But what we mustn't do is give encouragement to those who think it might be right to feed them. It isn't. However, it's a bit like slamming the stable door after the horse has bolted now as these creatures find diminishing food stocks in the urban environs and so 'hunt' food elsewhere - in the urban environs.
Returning them to a wild state sadly is no longer an option but finding other ways of controlling the pest has to be found otherwise, if we follow star's advice, we will all become prisoners in our own homes, not daring to open a window or door for fear of our pet budgie become a tasty morsel or worse, our 4 day old child.
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