another controversial topic for debate - Abortion

29 Feb 2008

Quote by benrums0n
I believe in the womans right to choose. I also believe in responsibility.
Women and men can choose to accept the risk of an unwanted pregnancy. You choose to do this when u engage in sex for fun.
If an unintended pregnancy occurs there are then other people who have rights, including in my view the father and the unborn child. The mother and the father have responsponsibilities too. The child has no responsibilities. At this point I stop believing in the mothers right to choose.
Sadly the unborn child has only "society" "government" etc to help him or her exercise those rights.
I believe the right of that child to life needs to be balanced against the rights of the woman carrying that baby. I believe taking away the life of that child is a pretty big thing to do. The impact of carrying that child to term on the mothers well being is big too.
I can think of very few circumstances where I would decide the mothers rights would be sufficient to deprive somebody of their life. Obviously there are exceptions.
I realise that many many people regard "people" as those who have survived birth. I do not hold that view.
I realise I sound like a right wing zealot. Im not I just have my own views and decided to share them as this thread existed. I make no judgement of those who do not share my views.

It that were the case you would be very much against abortion in any way shape or form wink

You just display your own views, not political ones IMO.

29 Feb 2008

Quote by winchwench
i went against my views on this a couple of months ago still quite a sore subject though and a lot of guilt

My mother went through this too, I think part of it is a griefing process, which is normal.
It was one of the most hardest decisions ive ever had to make. under other circumstances it would have been a blessing. The staff i found to be caring and none judgemental and not what i expected i was also lucky that those close to me didnt judge me on me decision
Tan, just to back up my pm.
I've been lucky enough never to have had an abortion. However, I came pretty damn close once, but I was over the limit. When we found this out, we told our older kids we were expecting. Minutes later, there was a call from my GP- telling me he'd found somewhere prepared to still do it. By then, obviously it was too late. I am so grateful for those few minutes now, as we have coped and our youngest is a blessing.
However, a few years ago I supported a dear friend through an abortion. I honestly think I cried a tear for each of hers. It was awful, as I didn't think she was doing the right thing- but I couldn't try to sway her. I just had to point out all the pro's & con's from a completely neutral standpoint. She went through hell. An infection afterwards when they fitted her with a coil has rendered her sterile- so she will never have any kids.
The whole experience made me pretty anti-abortion. However, having almost been there myself I know that few people take the decision lightly. There are exceptions, of course- I know of someone who had 4, and another person 3 abortions.
Anyway, Tan, if you didn't feel guilt- then I think you'd need to worry. confused

But no- that doesn't mean I think you deserve to kiss

Thank you :kiss:

29 Feb 2008

Quote by TabbynTina
Like you say no method is 100% and I agree with you on that but also like you say it takes 2 to make a baby but when the 2 people cant agree its only 1 persons choice as to whether or not they keep it

That works both ways it should not just be the mans or womens choice if the man does not want the baby and the women does or vise versa there is never an easy answer but it is the women who has to have abortion or have the baby. If complications occur it is the women left infertile or with fertility problems

29 Feb 2008

Quote by X_fanny_x

Like you say no method is 100% and I agree with you on that but also like you say it takes 2 to make a baby but when the 2 people cant agree its only 1 persons choice as to whether or not they keep it

That works both ways it should not just be the mans or womens choice if the man does not want the baby and the women does or vise versa there is never an easy answer but it is the women who has to have abortion or have the baby. If complications occur it is the women left infertile or with fertility problems
yes fanny I agree with you on that one and i think to a point it is the womans body so maybe she should have the finall say, I think the point I was trying to make was that if a woman chooses to keep a baby when the father has made his intent clear should he then be forced to pay for the child when its born?
personally I dont think he should
Tina
xx

29 Feb 2008

According to what I have read:
Where Abortion is allowed by law the crime levels drop.
Where Abortion are illegal the crime rates goes sky-high.
I look at it like this, I have a friend that in his own words was a 'mistake'. Around a 11yr gap between the next youngest & himself.
He mentioned to me many times that he was made to feel "not wanted" by both his Parents or another quote "an financial drain, on his Family".
It's a tribute to him that he's not had any Mental Issues from being made to feel these very raw emotions by his OWN Parents...!!
He is now a happily married farther of 3 children yet before this he had his battles which stem from his Childhood.
He still has a difficult realtionship with his Parents.
So on one hand he's still around due to his Parents not going for abortion yet he's a strong willed clever person.
My parents love me but am very sensitive & need their support as I find life very difficult yet their love keeps me going.
What am saying is that life is hard & if you know your not wanted then it get's even harder by 1000% , this is more likely to happen if Parents didn't or couldn't have an abortion.
Also from a personal perspective if it wasn't for abortion being legal in the U.K, I could of been a Dad at 20yrs Old...!!
As mentioned I have issues with life that have previously gone into wanting to take my own life. This issue happend 8yrs ago, so am not suitable to have children.
I've never liked Farthers, always telling their Children what to do. Giving orders.
So am very proud that the U.K has made abortion legal. My Girlfriend at the time was on the Pill & when we had Sex we used Extra Strong Condoms, yet she still fell pregnant. These things can occur.
Ohh..am now 30yrs Old.
No better in terms of income, lifestyle or peace of mind when I was 20yrs Old.
Some people wouldn't make good parents not becasue they are evil or bad just that Parenthood isn't for everyone or not a universial lifestyle choice.
That's my take on the subject.

29 Feb 2008

Quote by TabbynTina

Like you say no method is 100% and I agree with you on that but also like you say it takes 2 to make a baby but when the 2 people cant agree its only 1 persons choice as to whether or not they keep it

That works both ways it should not just be the mans or womens choice if the man does not want the baby and the women does or vise versa there is never an easy answer but it is the women who has to have abortion or have the baby. If complications occur it is the women left infertile or with fertility problems
yes fanny I agree with you on that one and i think to a point it is the womans body so maybe she should have the finall say, I think the point I was trying to make was that if a woman chooses to keep a baby when the father has made his intent clear should he then be forced to pay for the child when its born?
personally I dont think he should
Tina
xx
can i ask what your thoughts are on this? Fully understand what you say but i am kinda baised in the other direction
I fell pregnant at 15 and didnt find out until i was 6 months gone and had split up from the father. After i refused to marry the father (both parents wanted) he denied ever sleeping with me and the child could not possibly be his. his parents wanted dna tests but they would not even help towards costs (expected me or my parents to pay for the 3 tests mine his and the babies (one hell of alot of money 9 years ago) i could not afford this so it was thier choise to have it put in the csa's hands which sorted the tests out which they did (tests done in this way csa pays for tests and the wrong party pays back the cost to the csa)
The test came back in my favour he was the father and he admitted to lying months afterwards. he had a big bill to pay at that point and had to pay 6 months back maintainance money plus the amount they said he had to pay weekly towards the upkeep of our son.
But at 15 and no other choise that i had should he have to pay or should he like you say be exempt because he never wanted a child

29 Feb 2008

The other choices for unwanted children are hideous.
Some countries leave them in the fields to die.
Or in the snow over night
Abortion there should be a choice for people.

3 Mar 2008

Quote by X_fanny_x

Like you say no method is 100% and I agree with you on that but also like you say it takes 2 to make a baby but when the 2 people cant agree its only 1 persons choice as to whether or not they keep it

That works both ways it should not just be the mans or womens choice if the man does not want the baby and the women does or vise versa there is never an easy answer but it is the women who has to have abortion or have the baby. If complications occur it is the women left infertile or with fertility problems
yes fanny I agree with you on that one and i think to a point it is the womans body so maybe she should have the finall say, I think the point I was trying to make was that if a woman chooses to keep a baby when the father has made his intent clear should he then be forced to pay for the child when its born?
personally I dont think he should
Tina
xx
can i ask what your thoughts are on this? Fully understand what you say but i am kinda baised in the other direction
I fell pregnant at 15 and didnt find out until i was 6 months gone and had split up from the father. After i refused to marry the father (both parents wanted) he denied ever sleeping with me and the child could not possibly be his. his parents wanted dna tests but they would not even help towards costs (expected me or my parents to pay for the 3 tests mine his and the babies (one hell of alot of money 9 years ago) i could not afford this so it was thier choise to have it put in the csa's hands which sorted the tests out which they did (tests done in this way csa pays for tests and the wrong party pays back the cost to the csa)
The test came back in my favour he was the father and he admitted to lying months afterwards. he had a big bill to pay at that point and had to pay 6 months back maintainance money plus the amount they said he had to pay weekly towards the upkeep of our son.
But at 15 and no other choise that i had should he have to pay or should he like you say be exempt because he never wanted a child
I never said he should be exempt, I was asking if in that situation should he be made to pay, also in the story I told there was a choice.
I can see your point fanny and with your last post you said you refused to marry to him which again is I suppose what im trying to say is that in majority of pregnancys its always the womans choice,( im not saying either way if you should have married him) people always says it take 2 to make a baby but like I said earlier when things cant be agreed on the men ulimatley have no say.
in edit I would just like to say that I understand all situations are different and dont think everything is black and white and my posts are based on the 1 story my original post was about, i am not intending to offend anyone

4 Mar 2008

Just happened to see that there is a programme on More 4 (methinks) tonight debating the ethics of abortion.
Might be worth a watch to anyone who is interested. :thumbup:

4 Mar 2008

I'm 100% pro-abortion, not just here in the UK but more important worldwide.

4 Mar 2008

Quote by winchwench
Just happened to see that there is a programme on More 4 (methinks) tonight debating the ethics of abortion.
Might be worth a watch to anyone who is interested. :thumbup:

Thanks for that me little darlin, I've Sky+'d it! wink

5 Mar 2008

Quote by X_fanny_x
can i ask what your thoughts are on this? Fully understand what you say but i am kinda baised in the other direction
I fell pregnant at 15 and didnt find out until i was 6 months gone and had split up from the father. After i refused to marry the father (both parents wanted) he denied ever sleeping with me and the child could not possibly be his. his parents wanted dna tests but they would not even help towards costs (expected me or my parents to pay for the 3 tests mine his and the babies (one hell of alot of money 9 years ago) i could not afford this so it was thier choise to have it put in the csa's hands which sorted the tests out which they did (tests done in this way csa pays for tests and the wrong party pays back the cost to the csa)
The test came back in my favour he was the father and he admitted to lying months afterwards. he had a big bill to pay at that point and had to pay 6 months back maintainance money plus the amount they said he had to pay weekly towards the upkeep of our son.
But at 15 and no other choise that i had should he have to pay or should he like you say be exempt because he never wanted a child

If you have sex, given that you both have working reproductive organs, there is the possibility that pregnancy will result even if one or both of you are using contraception. By having sex you are accepting responsibility for that possibility, so yes I agree the father should be legally and financially responsible for the child he fathered.
One thing I don't understand, probably cus I'm a bloke, is how you can not know you are pregnant until you are 'six months gone'. If someone would explain this I'd be grateful:-)

5 Mar 2008

I think I can explain at least one way and i'm a bloke.
A good friend of ours was over 7 months gone when she found out she was pregnant. In point of fact at 4 months she was told she wasn't at a consultation with a gynaecologist, who she had been seeing in respect of the fact that she wasn't, and wanted to get pregnant.
By being told that she would have severe problems getting pregnant because of her size, which though big was no way extreme. She put the possibility of getting so out of her mind. friend being big had problems with regular periods not having them for years or if so so light as to be almost not having them.
As for feeling the presence of the child even My wife only knew with our first because of her size increase and of course no periods from the start, that she was pregnant having no sensations of baby moving about in there until past 6 months and my Mrs ain't big. So friend had none either until she got to past 7 months and got severe heartburn and the GP told her she was indeed 'very' pregnant. It floored the girl and all who knew her.

5 Mar 2008

When i first became preganant, went to the Drs to have it confirmed an he said *if your pregnant I;ll eat my hat*, I should have stuffed it where the sun dont shine few months later!! lol

:lol:
Im not gonna add anything to termination issue as Ive already done it in another thread...
Although, when I ran a Volunteer Bureau, remember once that we where asked to diplay Pro Abortionist Literature. My management committee at the time refused as it was such a contentious issue. It would like we supported it and we were a nuteral organisation.

5 Mar 2008

Thumbs up for a very interesting topic / debate and well done to all the contibuters for keeping it civil :thumbup:
As much as I'd like to i don't feel able to make a contribution as it is still a very emotive subject for me but reading some of the posts has been very helpful.
nice one people kiss

5 Mar 2008

Quote by Unc

can i ask what your thoughts are on this? Fully understand what you say but i am kinda baised in the other direction
I fell pregnant at 15 and didnt find out until i was 6 months gone and had split up from the father. After i refused to marry the father (both parents wanted) he denied ever sleeping with me and the child could not possibly be his. his parents wanted dna tests but they would not even help towards costs (expected me or my parents to pay for the 3 tests mine his and the babies (one hell of alot of money 9 years ago) i could not afford this so it was thier choise to have it put in the csa's hands which sorted the tests out which they did (tests done in this way csa pays for tests and the wrong party pays back the cost to the csa)
The test came back in my favour he was the father and he admitted to lying months afterwards. he had a big bill to pay at that point and had to pay 6 months back maintainance money plus the amount they said he had to pay weekly towards the upkeep of our son.
But at 15 and no other choise that i had should he have to pay or should he like you say be exempt because he never wanted a child

If you have sex, given that you both have working reproductive organs, there is the possibility that pregnancy will result even if one or both of you are using contraception. By having sex you are accepting responsibility for that possibility, so yes I agree the father should be legally and financially responsible for the child he fathered.
One thing I don't understand, probably cus I'm a bloke, is how you can not know you are pregnant until you are 'six months gone'. If someone would explain this I'd be grateful:-)
I had normal periods right through, never put on any weight until 7 months. I only found out because i become anemic at 6 months which can be known in pregnancy was sleeping all the hours i could and still feeling tired at 15 it was obvious something was amiss which was why i went to the doctor after routine bloods etc it came back i was pregnant
i had no morning sickness or anything. and didnt feel the baby move until 7 monthbut apparently he was hidden well back and the ultrasound found it hard to pick him up

5 Mar 2008

my sister worked with a lady in her 40's some years ago in a shoe shop. She went home with tummy pains one day and phoned up the next and said...err I won't be in for a while...I had a baby last night :shock:

7 Mar 2008

Quote by X_fanny_x
I had normal periods right through, never put on any weight until 7 months. I only found out because i become anemic at 6 months which can be known in pregnancy was sleeping all the hours i could and still feeling tired at 15 it was obvious something was amiss which was why i went to the doctor after routine bloods etc it came back i was pregnant
i had no morning sickness or anything. and didnt feel the baby move until 7 monthbut apparently he was hidden well back and the ultrasound found it hard to pick him up

Thanks babe, just shows how little I know about pregnancy:-) Us guys get off lucky, no doubt about that!
Hugs smile

7 Mar 2008

No problemo unc, some people have all the symptoms some people dont its really as simple as that my aunt knew she was at 3 days pregnant