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Max777
Over 90 days ago
Straight Male, 71
0 miles · Tyne and Wear

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Quote by Staggerlee_BB
It never ceases to amaze me how self righteous people get about our driving ability ..... There is a study should any of you care to search for it that shows a huge proportion of us when asked rate ourselves as above average drivers .... Including those in prison for motoring offences ...... There are indeed idiots at the wheel and we can all at times number ourselves amongst them

No need to search for the study, the evidence is here within this thread.
Quote by MidsCouple24
But flashing your lights and beeping your horn are acceptable forms of telling other drivers you are there. Middle lane joggers are usually oblivious to what is around them, therefore as the highway code states it is perfectly acceptable to let other road users know you are there.

There's a world of difference between making other drivers aware that you're there and driving aggressively behind someone flashing lights and beeping horns to make someone move over. You won't find that as being acceptable anywhere in the Highway Code!
I appreciate there is a difference, but unless someone is gesticulating wildly and mouthing obscenities how can you tell?
So if I come up behind you and flash my lights and beep my horn so you're not going to pull over and you think its aggressive?
It's also not a requirement to get out of the police's way when they are flashing their lights and using two tone, but we all do. Again its a signal to tell you that they are there.
Of course it's aggressive driving. You don't think it is? Please show me where in the Highway Code that says that type of driving is acceptable at any time.
Thats what I do, not always, sometimes I cannot be bothered and leave the idiots to drive like idiots, but sometimes the outside lane is busy and travelling at a speed I don't want to join in with so yes, I flash my lights and sound my horn in accordance with the highway code, I do not tailgate or use my horn like I get a bonus for it but I do let them know I would like them to use the empty lane to their left.
Show me where it states in the Highway Code that flashing your lights and sounding your horn in order to make other motorists change lanes is acceptable.
You are now backtracking on what you posted earlier " I am a patient driver, unless on the motorway behind a middle lane hogger then I just sit behind them flashing my lights and sounding my horn until they move over" and "so yes I sound my horn, flash my lights and let the idiot in the middle lane with no reason not to move to the nearside lane that I would like them to do so, some ignore you but not for long, they start to get embarrassed at the attention your bringing to them. after all they are insecure drivers so are easily unerved and you don't even have to get close to them"
The driving you describe is totally moronic, aggressive and dangerous. You claim not to have had an accident since you we're 17 but I bet you've seen a few in your rear view mirror.
Quote by Rogue_Trader
But flashing your lights and beeping your horn are acceptable forms of telling other drivers you are there. Middle lane joggers are usually oblivious to what is around them, therefore as the highway code states it is perfectly acceptable to let other road users know you are there.

There's a world of difference between making other drivers aware that you're there and driving aggressively behind someone flashing lights and beeping horns to make someone move over. You won't find that as being acceptable anywhere in the Highway Code!
I appreciate there is a difference, but unless someone is gesticulating wildly and mouthing obscenities how can you tell?
So if I come up behind you and flash my lights and beep my horn so you're not going to pull over and you think its aggressive?
It's also not a requirement to get out of the police's way when they are flashing their lights and using two tone, but we all do. Again its a signal to tell you that they are there.
Of course it's aggressive driving. You don't think it is? Please show me where in the Highway Code that says that type of driving is acceptable at any time.
Quote by Rogue_Trader
But flashing your lights and beeping your horn are acceptable forms of telling other drivers you are there. Middle lane joggers are usually oblivious to what is around them, therefore as the highway code states it is perfectly acceptable to let other road users know you are there.

There's a world of difference between making other drivers aware that you're there and driving aggressively behind someone flashing lights and beeping horns to make someone move over. You won't find that as being acceptable anywhere in the Highway Code!
Quote by MidsCouple24
To answer the person who asks why I will not simply overtake a car hogging in the middle lane, that is not always possible, if the nearside lane is empty and I catch up with a vehicle using the middle lane doing let's say 50mph I have to move to the middle lane to overtake them, to move to the outside lane which may be busy is not so easy, so yes I sound my horn, flash my lights and let the idiot in the middle lane with no reason not to move to the nearside lane that I would like them to do so, some ignore you but not for long, they start to get embarrassed at the attention your bringing to them. after all they are insecure drivers so are easily unerved and you don't even have to get close to them.

If you were a half competent driver you would have made preparations to overtake the car in the middle lane well before the point of driving up its rear end. It's laughable that you accuse others of being lazy insecure drivers, driving instructors of not being up to the job and some drivers of thinking they're above the law when you yourself admit to moronic driving and adhering to speed limits when you feel like it.
Do you ever read back through some of the rubbish you write?
Quote by MidsCouple24

I am a patient driver, unless on the motorway behind a middle lane hogger then I just sit behind them flashing my lights and sounding my horn until they move over

Why don't you just overtake the middle lane hogger? Surely that's the safest option? The driving you describe can best be described as aggressive and dangerous.
Quote by MidsCouple24
On speeding I understand the law, I understand why we have it, but it does work both ways for me, I drive for the speed of the road at the time, I dont speed often, I try not to speed but at 2am on a dual carriageway speeding is less dangerous than driving past a school at 3pm with the kids coming out at the legal 30mph. Some people though believe they are above the law and break it simply because they want to

Surely you must believe that you are above the law if you think that exceeding the speed limit by 30 mph is at any time acceptable?
On the contrary, I broke the law and accepted the consequences with an appology not a moan, accepting that the penalty was justified and belieiving I "got off lightly" I did not say "the law is an ass, the law is wrong and I will continue to break it every time" I drive.
Yes accidents on motorways are usually down to idiots, rarely down to mechanical failure such as tyre blowouts.
Driving too close
Driving too fast for the road conditions
Tiredness
Lack of attention
and other factors INCLUDING hogging the middle lane at any speed in any conditions and people who think the law doesnt apply to them because they know better

Also including idiots who think it's acceptable to drive at 30 mph above the speed limit and by morons driving aggressively trying to force other motorists to move over rather than just overtake as any sensible driver would.
Quote by MidsCouple24
I am a patient driver, unless on the motorway behind a middle lane hogger then I just sit behind them flashing my lights and sounding my horn until they move over

Why don't you just overtake the middle lane hogger? Surely that's the safest option? The driving you describe can best be described as aggressive and dangerous.
Quote by MidsCouple24
On speeding I understand the law, I understand why we have it, but it does work both ways for me, I drive for the speed of the road at the time, I dont speed often, I try not to speed but at 2am on a dual carriageway speeding is less dangerous than driving past a school at 3pm with the kids coming out at the legal 30mph. Some people though believe they are above the law and break it simply because they want to

Surely you must believe that you are above the law if you think that exceeding the speed limit by 30 mph is at any time acceptable?
Quote by MidsCouple24
But they are above the law on so many occasions, albeit that sometimes it is because they have made a ruling that they are above the law.
For example, they can legally smoke in some bars in the House of Lords and the House of Commons.
They do not have to pay for a TV licence.
They do not have to pay road tax for the car they use for constituency work.
They continue to flount the Rules of the Houses of Parliament and Lords not signing the book declaring their interests in things not connected with their work as an MP but which could be affected by their position.
Many still abuse their expenses claims and in so doing also break UK Tax laws.
Yes it is better to have a democracy but that does not give them the right to be above the law when it suits them.
Take the MP convicted of drink driving but not given any punishment because he was "taking his wife home from a party because she felt ill"
If any of us used that excuse we would be laughed at and probably given a more severe penalty.
Being bribed to do things within your employment is the worst thing you can do, MP's take a job where they have to be above bribery or fear of blackmail, we insist on that of many of our armed forces and civil servants who are "Positive Vetted" for certain jobs and an army Private accepts that responsibility for a lot less salary and benefits than an MP does.
If that was a football manager, player, sportsman, jockey etc the penalties are severe, why not MPs.
The reason they get away with it seems apparent by this thread, people don't care, people just accept it, brainwashed by the very people that do the crime.
so many sheep, so many sheep.

Are you sure you have your facts right regarding smoking in the Houses of Parliament, MPs not paying VED ( no one pays Road Tax) or for their TV Licences?
Quote by flower411

No. There's no flying boots, just fake blood capsules. This holier than thou attitude from rugger-buggers does my head in.

That was such a low point in English Rugby and hopefully will ensure that nobody ever tries that shit again but I would be interesting to hear of other evidence of misconduct in Rugby whereas we could all take a couple of minutes to find an example of a footballer taking a dive any day of the week.
Try searching stamping, gouging and punching, not to mention collapsing the scrum, not rolling away etc. To suggest that there is no foul play or cheating in rugby is naive in the extreme.
Quote by foxylady2209
It still didn't take 3. That was inappropriate - did they feel they needed to protect each other from her flying Tai Kwan Do kick?

I have no idea, I wasn't privy to the conversation. Why not put the question to the police service in question?
You might want to look up the word - rhetorical. Or you could interpret it as a request for an opinion.
I was under the impression that any post in the forum was open to a response?
Of course - but that response read like I was wrong to post the question here and should bugger off and ask it elsewhere. I don't like being told that MY response was unacceptable.
I don't see anywhere where you were told your response was unacceptable. If that's how you read my post, then that's your problem. If I'd wanted to tell you to bugger off and ask the question elsewhere, that's exactly what I would say.
Quote by foxylady2209
It still didn't take 3. That was inappropriate - did they feel they needed to protect each other from her flying Tai Kwan Do kick?

I have no idea, I wasn't privy to the conversation. Why not put the question to the police service in question?
You might want to look up the word - rhetorical. Or you could interpret it as a request for an opinion.
I was under the impression that any post in the forum was open to a response?
Quote by flower411
A somewhat different take on the same story!

Just appears to be the same story without the histrionics. Not what I would call a different take.
I would call reporting the facts of a story in a responsible and non sensational manner and putting an histrionic tabloid slant on the same story as a different take.
Quote by foxylady2209
It still didn't take 3. That was inappropriate - did they feel they needed to protect each other from her flying Tai Kwan Do kick?

I have no idea, I wasn't privy to the conversation. Why not put the question to the police service in question?
Quote by Rogue_Trader
The point I was making is how many of those 10 receive national news coverage?

Why should they receive national coverage? How does a murder in Scotland affect me here in Devon? The key here is national news. News that is worthy to affect or to be of interest to the public nationally.
Again, I would argue that these murderers did not deserve such coverage.
It was Too Hot that accused the media of bias for not reporting the two murders equally. I simply made the point that only a small minority of murders make national news.
So you don't believe that the murder of Lee Rigby worthy of national news coverage?
Quote by Rogue_Trader
Murders are an all too common occurrence, most of which do not receive national news coverage. The difference with the murder of Lee Rigby was that it was carried out in full public view, by people who claimed to have committed the murder for political reasons and who obviously wanted to attract as much publicity as possible.
I'm sure that had Mr Saleem been murdered in similar circumstances to Lee Rigby by two members of the EDL, the media coverage would have been just as extensive and and the focus would equally have been on the racial aspect of the crime.

Murder isn't common at all in the UK. It has one of the lowest rates in the world at 1.2 murders per 100,000 head of population.
I think you are quite correct in the fact that if 2 murderers had committed such an atrocity in the name of christianity and stood waiting to be interviewed and caught by the police, then that would have splattered its way across every news/media reporting outlet.
They way this brutal act was portrayed and reported got the attentioin the killers wanted, also by referring to them as terrorists legitimised, in their eyes, what they did.
Should never have shown the videos and only referred to them as common thugs.
I think that at over 10 murders a week, it can be said to be an all too common occurrence. The fact that we have one of the lowest murder rates in the world is something that we should be grateful for but 10 per week is still 10 too many.
The point I was making is how many of those 10 receive national news coverage?
Is it not correct that the media reported the full facts of the Lee Rigby murder? The videos would have come into the public domain regardless and then the media would have been accused of a cover up.
Quote by Too Hot
The lack of information about the death of Mohammed Saleem simply proves the point that a seemingly grotesque racist attack on an innocent 75 year I'd goes largely unreported albeit you can find details if you dig deep enough.
The reporting on the equally hideous death of Lee Rigby has opened wounds in the British psyche that have been closed for decades and the hysterical media coverage is creating division where there need not be division. These two murderers were demented criminals and not representative of the Muslim community. By focusing the nations attention on the racial and religious aspect of this crime we are at risk of alienating the vast majority of Muslims who are fully integrated into our society and who have contributed greatly to our society. We need mainstream Islam to fight radical Islam - attacking Islam generally will not help.

I didn't have to dig at all to find any details regarding the murder of Mohammed Saleem. It would appear that most mainstream newspapers reported it on their websites. I can't say whether it was reported in the actual newspapers as I don't read them.
Murders are an all too common occurrence, most of which do not receive national news coverage. The difference with the murder of Lee Rigby was that it was carried out in full public view, by people who claimed to have committed the murder for political reasons and who obviously wanted to attract as much publicity as possible.
I'm sure that had Mr Saleem been murdered in similar circumstances to Lee Rigby by two members of the EDL, the media coverage would have been just as extensive and and the focus would equally have been on the racial aspect of the crime.
Quote by Rogue_Trader
The subject running on the video is clearly holding a machete.

Really?

It's certainly not clear in the picture in the link and I have not seen the word machete used in any articles I have read other than the dubious headlines to which Flower referred.
Maybe you can provide a link which proves your claim?

If you can see that the man is clearly holing a machete, you have better eyesight than I have.
Quote by Rogue_Trader
The subject running on the video is clearly holding a machete.

Really?

It's certainly not clear in the picture in the link and I have not seen the word machete used in any articles I have read other than the dubious headlines to which Flower referred.
Maybe you can provide a link which proves your claim?
Quote by flower411
As far as this particular crime goes I think it says a great deal about the media and how the media shape our understanding of what constitutes news.
Two or three weeks ago in Birmingham, a 75 year old grandfather was attacked and murdered by a machete wielding maniac. The man was walking home from the mosque and the white suspect was captured on CCTV fleeing the scene.
The story barely made local news coverage whereas the equally awful murder of the Woolwich soldier made International news and was the main feature for almost a continuous 48 hours on sky news and bbc news.
I am not trying to minimise the truly awful nature of either of these killings, simply pointing out how selective news media can be in their interpretation of what qualifies as news and it would seem that mainstream news may be about stirring outrage more than reporting news in an equal and unbiased way.

Is this the murder you refer to?

there is no mention of a machete being used as the murder weapon and also it does not say that the white man seen on CCTV is a suspect fleeing from the scene. It says he was seen running near the scene of the attack around the time it happened. Are you being selective with the facts to suit your argument?
.
Interestingly enough, you can find the headline !!

Follow the Full Article link at the bottom of the article and you are back at the Guardian article in my post.

Errmmm yeah !! That's why I made the point of saying it was just the headline !
Well there you go Flower. There's you agreeing with me and me looking for your hidden agenda! wink
Quote by flower411
As far as this particular crime goes I think it says a great deal about the media and how the media shape our understanding of what constitutes news.
Two or three weeks ago in Birmingham, a 75 year old grandfather was attacked and murdered by a machete wielding maniac. The man was walking home from the mosque and the white suspect was captured on CCTV fleeing the scene.
The story barely made local news coverage whereas the equally awful murder of the Woolwich soldier made International news and was the main feature for almost a continuous 48 hours on sky news and bbc news.
I am not trying to minimise the truly awful nature of either of these killings, simply pointing out how selective news media can be in their interpretation of what qualifies as news and it would seem that mainstream news may be about stirring outrage more than reporting news in an equal and unbiased way.

Is this the murder you refer to?

there is no mention of a machete being used as the murder weapon and also it does not say that the white man seen on CCTV is a suspect fleeing from the scene. It says he was seen running near the scene of the attack around the time it happened. Are you being selective with the facts to suit your argument?
.
Interestingly enough, you can find the headline !!

Follow the Full Article link at the bottom of the article and you are back at the Guardian article in my post.
No mention of a machete in the original article so who is being selective?
Quote by Too Hot
As far as this particular crime goes I think it says a great deal about the media and how the media shape our understanding of what constitutes news.
Two or three weeks ago in Birmingham, a 75 year old grandfather was attacked and murdered by a machete wielding maniac. The man was walking home from the mosque and the white suspect was captured on CCTV fleeing the scene.
The story barely made local news coverage whereas the equally awful murder of the Woolwich soldier made International news and was the main feature for almost a continuous 48 hours on sky news and bbc news.
I am not trying to minimise the truly awful nature of either of these killings, simply pointing out how selective news media can be in their interpretation of what qualifies as news and it would seem that mainstream news may be about stirring outrage more than reporting news in an equal and unbiased way.

Is this the murder you refer to?

there is no mention of a machete being used as the murder weapon and also it does not say that the white man seen on CCTV is a suspect fleeing from the scene. It says he was seen running near the scene of the attack around the time it happened. Are you being selective with the facts to suit your argument?
As dreadful as the murder in Birmingham is, the totally brutal and barbaric nature of the murder of the young soldier, carried out in broad daylight in front of many eye witnesses makes the level of media coverage entirely justifiable IMHO.
Unfortunately, this is what the perpetrators sought but I believe the sheer monstrosity of the crime made it impossible to not to have the level of media coverage it had.
Have to say that I'm sad to see that Wigan have made history by becoming the first club to win the FA Cup and be relegated in the same season. Ecstasy turning into agony within 72 hours for their fans.
Quote by starlightcouple

I'm not sure who it was that didn't give Chelsea a chance.

Most of the media at the time Max. Chelsea were nowhere near the class of Leeds Utd in 1970 Max, but I take on board your comment with regards to the Sunderland game.
Quote by Max777
They had a great side and it was a replay after a 2-2 draw at Wembley. Admittedly they had to get Chopper Harris to cripple Eddie Gray after his roasting of Webb in the first match. A much bigger shock was Sunderland's win against Leeds in 1973.

Cripple Eddie Gray? What Ron Harris? Never. wink
Leeds finished second that year with 55 points and Chelsea were third with 53 points. Couldn't have been that large a difference in class.
Quote by starlightcouple
One of the greatest teams in modern history of football being Leeds United in their great days of the 70's lost in an FA cup final to Chelsea who were not given a chance at the time. There have also been many other upsets where the little team defies the odds

I'm not sure who it was that didn't give Chelsea a chance. They had a great side and it was a replay after a 2-2 draw at Wembley. Admittedly they had to get Chopper Harris to cripple Eddie Gray after his roasting of Webb in the first match. A much bigger shock was Sunderland's win against Leeds in 1973.
For once I'm in total agreement with you on a football related topic, although it remains to be seen as to whether David Moyes can sustain Sir Alex's success and therefore continued stability within the club.
Quote by deancannock
I tell you what LiznRob, I would be willing to work google and find non footballing celebrities that have been aggressive, caused GBH, caught taking drugs and other things that we should not see from role models if you will do the same and gather the list about footballers, to make it fair I will only target people in the music industry.
Let's see who can get the biggest list.
We could even categorise the behaviour, for example.
Murder
Drug Abuse
Violence towards another person off stage/pitch
Violence towards others on stage/pitch

Domestic Abuse
Affairs
Alcohol abuse

There's 37 footballers in the English/Scottish Divisions for you to be getting on with........and I bet that doesn't even scratch the surface.

looked at that and I must say 37 is a very low number as this seems to spread over last 40/50 years. George best is in there and so that must have been the 70's....the Tony Adams drink driving I think was very early 80's....37 over 40 or more years....less than one a year...very low indeed.
But as I said in my post, this barely scratches the surface. This is just a list that someone has compiled, not a definitive list.
Quote by MidsCouple24
I tell you what LiznRob, I would be willing to work google and find non footballing celebrities that have been aggressive, caused GBH, caught taking drugs and other things that we should not see from role models if you will do the same and gather the list about footballers, to make it fair I will only target people in the music industry.
Let's see who can get the biggest list.
We could even categorise the behaviour, for example.
Murder
Drug Abuse
Violence towards another person off stage/pitch
Violence towards others on stage/pitch

Domestic Abuse
Affairs
Alcohol abuse

There's 37 footballers in the English/Scottish Divisions for you to be getting on with........and I bet that doesn't even scratch the surface.
Not quite what you had in mind Dean but I thought that a small thing called the World Wide Web being 20 years old today was worth a mention.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Naive for thinking that a networking site wouldn't actually be a networking site .. perhaps, maybe I should get trading standards to look at how they describe themselves and what they actually are then.
I do know that FB is losing 6 million members a month in the US and 2 million members a month in the UK alone. Those are the numbers closing accounts, no doubt many more are like me who now leave their accounts dormant, never actually visiting the site anymore.
But expecting a CEO to make money out if it, maybe, many sites exist only to encourage advertisers, but most of the businesses advertising on FB do not pay for the priviledge, they simply open user accounts, they could argue that they are merely networking but I think we all know they are not there to make friends and chat or play games.
Perhaps the businesses are welcome on facebook to compensate for the loss of public profiles on there, keeping up the numbers does help with the stock market price of FB and encourages those advertisers who do pay not to take their business elsewhere.

The site was initially designed for the use of Harvard students only, then it was opened up to students of other American Universities and then it was eventually opened further to allow the general masses to use it. The site continues to evolve.
I use it to keep in contact with family members and friends, some of whom live abroad. I never click on any of the advertising banners, never use any of the 'free' games or apps and guess what? I never receive any spam!
There will be many reasons why people are leaving the site and Facebook will only continue until something better comes along. Remember My Space?