Just for those of you soooooo keen to get that new i-phone .... a little pause for thought
Sex God
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Staggerlee_BB
Over 90 days ago
Straight Male, 62
Bisexual Female, 63
0 miles · Widdrington Station
Forum
Sex God
Never settle for just a shallow grave ... always dig deep and a good distance from any paths
Sex God
Witch hunt .... the whole of you argument star and that of the media is based on the demonization of one man; who to a large extent is irrelevant ... there is a process of law being worked out, if it hadn't been Hamza it would have been someone else
Oh and F.Y.I. 'rush to a' and 'a rushed' aren't the same thing
plus ca change
Oh and F.Y.I. 'rush to a' and 'a rushed' aren't the same thing
plus ca change
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
Soooo ....
1:CONVICTIONS ... (your capitals) those would be for crimes he has been tried for already then
I would presume so. I thought I made that rather clear. but you do tend to see only what YOU want to see.
And what I see is you missing the point ... these are spent convictions time served justice done and are only to be considered in any future SENTENCING not trial .. see that statue on top of the Old Bailey ??? it's got a blinfold on ; now what do you think this may signify ??
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
2:Unless you're serving on a jury trying him what he is or isn't guilty of in your eyes is irrelevant
Not irrelevant as such, just that when he gets to the USA, he will be tried by a jury, and I believe found guilty. He will get a fair and just trial but that is more than what he offered others on his orders ( apparently ). As until he is tried and convicted it is all accusations of course.
No 'as such' in it, your opinion and mine are irrelevant ... this is a matter of law both local and international and will be (hopefully) decided by the court in this country and then possibly the U.S., either way neither you or I will be playing any part in those descisions ... don't mix up the right to an opinion with the weight they don't carry
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
It's interesting that you talk about following orders in the context of extraditing someone to a country who's president has absolved it's soldiers and secret service of any moral culpability when 'carrying out orders.
Is that correct? I think the USA has to follow the same rules of engagement as we do in war?
Bradley Manning
Of course war is dirty and unjust but then again I do not know what it is like to be shot at, or to see comrades blown up next to you, and I would suspect neither do you. Things happen in war, terrible things, but I will not be detracted from the fact that people like Hamza are cruel violent people, but also cowards as they get others to do their dirty work.
All of this is irrelevant and is typical of the knee jerk unreasoned tabloid thinking so sadly prevalent in or society
He has been convicted of many things in this country,
See above
and he is wanted to stand trial for other serious crimes in a country we have extradition treaty with. I am sure though Staggers that you would want justice to be seen to be done? So I would then presume that to answer that justice he should be sent to the USA to answer those charges? But I would then expect your hatred of the USA to cloud your judgement, which then interferes with your own personnel feelings.
My personal feelings about anything don't come into it, He has a right to law in this country BEFORE any possible U.S. trial is an issue, if and when he has exhausted that right he is sent for trial in the U.S. then the crimes he is accused of are the issue; the issue NOW is whether or not this country should extradite him and he like anyone else has the right to challenge that extradition in court.
And just F.Y.I. my father spent many of his formative years in the U.S. and my grandfather was a naturalised U.S. citizen ...my opinion may not be quite as you assume
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
You do have an unerring knack of missing the point ... it looks almost deliberate
What YOUR point I take it you mean? Because I will never agree with your line of thinking on about 99% of things you say.
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
the real problem with this and other cases is the independance of the judiciary and how it is being increasingly threatened in this country and others in the name of 'security'
In the eyes of Staggers you mean?
What the same threatening of our judiciary you mean in it taking ten years to get this man out of the UK to stand trial on other very serious crimes? Any other country in the civilised world would have got him on a plane by now. Even now a high court judge has granted the extradition on hold until it comes back into the high court...AGAIN. What that kind of injustice within our judiciary you mean Staggers? :doh:The fact that you see the insitence by our legal system that anyone should be treated in a civilized manner and allowed to exercise their right to law as a weaknesss says more than I ever could
The fact that you chose to ignore that I have tried to widen the point says much; there is undeniable pressure in this country and others ,by politicians,the media, and the public to ignore the rights of certain individuals;it would appear that you believe this to be good thing .... you are wrong
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
but I really am expecting too much of you if I ask you to see the wider issue aren't I, the Daily Hate doesn't why on earth should you
The wider issue of what exactly? In your mind what should the UK have done with Hamza then? Keep him in prison? Release him back into the community? Prey tell us what you would do in the mad bad world of Staggers?
I would allow him recourse to the the law to it's fullest extent,as I would with anyone and everyone else
Your continued running down of the Daily Mail has what to do with this exactly? The vast majority of people want him gone from our shores. The vast majority of decent hard working British people are sick of this fiasco. The media want him gone, expect for a few other papers like the Gua...., I cannot even speak the name after some of the disgusting things they have written about this case.
See it's not the Mail per se it's the attitude engendered by it and it's cohort that rational thought and reason are irrelevant,that opinion and not fact are important,that blind ill considered knee jerk reaction is the civilized way to behave ... they are the lowest common denominator in the human condition and that they are invariably wrong
So what shall we do with this man then Staggers? I am intrigued to know your answer to this question.
We?? I personally have no intention of doing anything with him .... I don't care one way or another what happens to him, I care that whatever is done,is done correctly;I care that we uphold those values that so many of you purport our troops to be fighting for;I care that we do not discard thousands of years of social and political evolution in the rush to a witch hunt.
Sex God
Quote by Suedehead
You can not lay any blame at someone just wanting to get into see a football match ... all responsibility lay with piss poor crowd control and a chain of events that led to ordinary people being treated as second class citizens.
The only link to any blame for the fans ... and this is a very feint blame and no way attributed to any fan that day ... lay with the minority hooligan element who added fuel to the view that all people who watched football were scum and should be controlled via an ID card or forced into un-safe terraces
You can't blame people who want to get in to see a football match and arrive in good time and enter in an orderly fashion
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
It's a tragedy that those who died were innocent ... it's about time that both police AND fans were honest about their responsibility
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
this cover up went from the very top to the bobby on the beat, all doing what they do best, cover each others backsides when needed.
As someone who knows one of the 'bobbies on the beat' ... I assure you this is bollocks
Now here's my problem with this ... I live in Sheffield,I know people who live in Hillsborough,I know that there was a sudden late rush by fans to the stadium,I know the police fucked up and compounded their error by trying to cover it up .... and I also know that the police do not bear sole responsibility for the tragic occourences that day.
It's a tragedy that those who died were innocent ... it's about time that both police AND fans were honest about their responsibility
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
So all set for a little bit of good old fashioned U.S. justice .... btw this country has a policy of not extraditing to countries that carry out torture .....
Or at least we used to
And just for those who may think the first link from a dangerous left wing source
I shall draw your attention to this.
Please take note of his CONVICTIONS please. Also take notice of what the judge said at his trial.
" In sentencing, Mr Justice Hughes said Masri had "helped to create an atmosphere in which to kill has become regarded by some as not only a legitimate course but a moral and religious duty in pursuit of perceived justice". Masri was sentenced to seven years' =red]1*
He is guilty of murder in my eyes as that is what he preached, and others carried out his orders 2*. At least the Americans will not be running scared of European judges, and Hamza will never see British soil again if extradited to the USA. That for me can only be a damn good thing.
Soooo ....
1:CONVICTIONS ... (your capitals) those would be for crimes he has been tried for already then
2:Unless you're serving on a jury trying him what he is or isn't guilty of in your eyes is irrelevant
It's interesting that you talk about following orders in the context of extraditing someone to a country who's president has absolved it's soldiers and secret service of any moral culpability when 'carrying out orders.
You do have an unerring knack of missing the point ... it looks almost deliberate ... the real problem with this and other cases is the independance of the judiciary and how it is being increasingly threatened in this country and others in the name of 'security' .... but I really am expecting too much of you if I ask you to see the wider issue aren't I, the Daily Hate doesn't why on earth should you
Sex God
I for one sincerely hope that Harry comes home alive and well
His mothers death ruined one days T.V. god forbid Hewitts bastard should ruin another
His mothers death ruined one days T.V. god forbid Hewitts bastard should ruin another
Sex God
Quote by Cubes
I have to admit that I've not read the entire thread (time is my enemy lately) but I can't help thinking that one likely cause of all this hoo-ha is that it simply fell into a slow news week. But hey, at least it seems to have removed the focus from Kate's tits! ;)
As did (as far as I can tell ) the photographer
Sex God
Hanging's too good for 'em
One wonders what Mr Mitchells reaction would have been had his opposite number been the subject of these accusations
I don't really; he'd have called for his resignation
One wonders what Mr Mitchells reaction would have been had his opposite number been the subject of these accusations
I don't really; he'd have called for his resignation
Sex God
So all set for a little bit of good old fashioned U.S. justice .... btw this country has a policy of not extraditing to countries that carry out torture .....
Or at least we used to
And just for those who may think the first link from a dangerous left wing source
Or at least we used to
And just for those who may think the first link from a dangerous left wing source
Sex God
Left handed bald ex-ginger ....... we are the next step in the evolutionary chain .... world domination is but a heartbeat away ..... bow down you inferior right handers before your masters ...... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Sex God
'Kin 'ell Blue you defused my masterstroke there, there I was allowing everyone to get on with it only to wade in at the last minute to undercut the whole arguement with a sharp pithy and supremely witty truth..... and you bloody stroll in and ruin the moment .... that's it we are no longer on speaking terms
:flounces off in a huff (or hough)
Oh and hello and welcome back B.T.W.
:flounces off in a huff (or hough)
Oh and hello and welcome back B.T.W.
Sex God
There is no such thing as a royal family to be proud of .... any royal family is a demonstration of our lack of social evolution and should by definition be an embarassment to us ... it is nice to see ours fulfilling that task so well
Sex God
Is that where a big orange bloke slaps you across the face ???????????
nowt so queer as folk
nowt so queer as folk
Sex God
It's to stop them getting cold feet
See what I did there??? .... there are two meanings to that .... do you see???
Oh I give up ..... pearls I'm casting pearls here
sod you then
See what I did there??? .... there are two meanings to that .... do you see???
Oh I give up ..... pearls I'm casting pearls here
sod you then
Sex God
Quote by flower411
Typical tribal and partisan response from a left winger. Totally blind or wilfully ignorant to the short comings of those in a red rosette. It is people like you voting for the morons Brown and Balls that has resulted in the mess the government finances are in.
If you had read many of my other posts you would be aware of the fact that I have never been a supporter of Blair , Brown or any 'new' Labour regime. I have in fact refused to vote Labour since Blairs election as leader (barring one vote against a B.N.P. Candidate) having spotted him as a Tory very early in his campaign for leadership.
The governments finances are not in the state they are in because of the abomination that is P.F.I. But because government of all parties has since the 80's pandered to and encouraged the greed and self regard of the wealthy in this country and refused to levy taxes to a level that would allow the much needed investment in our infrastructure
Quote by bayboy1664
So you excuse Balls paying £10 million too much per school just because he was "trying to do something"? The unborn children who will be paying off Labours debts will thank you I'm sure.
No, what I said was that at least they were trying to do something about it … what they should have done was increase borrowing and levied taxes to cover that increased borrowing. Given that doing so would have rendered them unelectable (that selfish greed again )what would you suggest they should have done ?? Those unborn children would I'm sure have thanked you for the derelict schools and hospitals you would have bequeathed them (lets not forget the hospitals).
What Brown and Balls tried to do was/is laudable HOW they did it wasn't
Quote by bayboy1664
Anyone who voted for Labour in 97, 01,or 05 should have an extra tax levied on them.
And anyone who voted Tory in the years before should be taken out and shot … it was their legacy of greed self service and arrogance that left us with no industrial base, with no option for any potential government but to continue pandering to the worst excesses of the city,to continue to keep taxes at a level that left our schools and hospitals (except the private ones of course) holding out begging bowls as the fabric of their buildings crumbled around their ears … so yah boo sucks it was the Tories not Labour …. or more honestly it was all of the incompetent ideal free fuckwits … but go on you blame Brown and Balls after all you do seem to know about 'tribal' 'partisan ' responses
Quote by bayboy1664
PS It is ridiculous to blame Browns catastrophic use of PFI on anyone but Brown and it reveals an infantile tribalism that you attempt to do so.
Indeed it would be … I, however, merely pointed out an uncomfortable and oft missed fact … P.F.I. Was a Tory idea , and more importantly this cash strapped but oh so fiscally responsible government is not only honouring (and not re-negotiating) existing deals but is still putting large scale building and infrastructure projects out to tender under the same scheme; to the same contractors, who will fuck us all in the same way.... so much for the coalition and its new regime .. more cant less schools
I was going to comment earlier but didn`t ....
The only thing that surprises me here is that you "staggerlee" vote ..
Do you really believe that the people in parliament actually have any say in the way the country is run ?
If I'm totally honest Flower, probably not ... but in a complacent country what else have I got but to buy into the illusion ??
Sex God
Me and Golly getting banned from the school trip to Paris for trying to smuggle booze onto the coach ......
Am I doing this right ????
Am I doing this right ????
Sex God
Quote by bayboy1664
Typical tribal and partisan response from a left winger. Totally blind or wilfully ignorant to the short comings of those in a red rosette. It is people like you voting for the morons Brown and Balls that has resulted in the mess the government finances are in.
If you had read many of my other posts you would be aware of the fact that I have never been a supporter of Blair , Brown or any 'new' Labour regime. I have in fact refused to vote Labour since Blairs election as leader (barring one vote against a B.N.P. Candidate) having spotted him as a Tory very early in his campaign for leadership.
The governments finances are not in the state they are in because of the abomination that is P.F.I. But because government of all parties has since the 80's pandered to and encouraged the greed and self regard of the wealthy in this country and refused to levy taxes to a level that would allow the much needed investment in our infrastructure
Quote by bayboy1664
So you excuse Balls paying £10 million too much per school just because he was "trying to do something"? The unborn children who will be paying off Labours debts will thank you I'm sure.
No, what I said was that at least they were trying to do something about it … what they should have done was increase borrowing and levied taxes to cover that increased borrowing. Given that doing so would have rendered them unelectable (that selfish greed again )what would you suggest they should have done ?? Those unborn children would I'm sure have thanked you for the derelict schools and hospitals you would have bequeathed them (lets not forget the hospitals).
What Brown and Balls tried to do was/is laudable HOW they did it wasn't
Quote by bayboy1664
Anyone who voted for Labour in 97, 01,or 05 should have an extra tax levied on them.
And anyone who voted Tory in the years before should be taken out and shot … it was their legacy of greed self service and arrogance that left us with no industrial base, with no option for any potential government but to continue pandering to the worst excesses of the city,to continue to keep taxes at a level that left our schools and hospitals (except the private ones of course) holding out begging bowls as the fabric of their buildings crumbled around their ears … so yah boo sucks it was the Tories not Labour …. or more honestly it was all of the incompetent ideal free fuckwits … but go on you blame Brown and Balls after all you do seem to know about 'tribal' 'partisan ' responses
Quote by bayboy1664
PS It is ridiculous to blame Browns catastrophic use of PFI on anyone but Brown and it reveals an infantile tribalism that you attempt to do so.
Indeed it would be … I, however, merely pointed out an uncomfortable and oft missed fact … P.F.I. Was a Tory idea , and more importantly this cash strapped but oh so fiscally responsible government is not only honouring (and not re-negotiating) existing deals but is still putting large scale building and infrastructure projects out to tender under the same scheme; to the same contractors, who will fuck us all in the same way.... so much for the coalition and its new regime .. more cant less schools
Sex God
Quote by bayboy1664
Ah the famous Building Schools for the Future program where you can get a state of the art £15 million building for the bargain price of £25 million.
Ed Balls and Building Schools for the Future is a perfect example of all that is wrong with the Labour Party. Grandiose scheme, good intentions, incompetant oversight, millions of pounds pissed up the wall and then complaints when someone else has to clean up the mess afterwards.
People who voted Labour should have an extra tax placed on them for the mess the UK is in and the debt that has to be repaid.
I know it's terrible that any government should want to improve the education facilities in this country isn't it ... what are the current incumbents doing ?? oh I remember now ... fuck all
P.F.I .... Tory idea still being used .... I know it's all Gordon Brown and Ed Balls' fault but the truth is a little different ... carry on
Sex God
Quote by Ben_Minx
One line from BOHEMIAN Rhapsody and 10 minutes of Spice Girls? I wish I hadn't bothered. And whet about the rest of the country's music (if it had to be limited to music at all?) Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Thomas Tallis, UB40, The Specials, any of the new batch of properlay trained singers and musicians.
It just seemed to be extracts from one person's iPod - that person having an incredibly limited playlist to start with!
And what the F*** was Russell Brand doing there at all? A more unsavoury individual would be hard to find outside Belmarsh!
Quite.
Although Townsend and Michael wouldn't be on my role model list either.
Role models ??? pick any of the musicians in the ceremony and show me their clean living drug free undebauched past ... bet you can't
As for the closing ceremony ... most of the music wasn't to my taste, but the directors stated aim was to play the songs that get people singing and dancing in the aisles ... as far as it goes I think he probably hit the right thank your lucky stars that we didn't get hi ho silver fucking lining
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
Dennis Skinner .... the legendary beast of Bolsover
The ex Viscount Stansfield
Arthur Scargill
This is a good game .... anyone else want to play:lol:
you just come back from the pub, after one over the nine? you seem to have missed any of the game so go and play on your own.
Actually I've just got back from Northumberland where I was delivering two dogs to a rescue ... 'cos I'm a fucking saint I am
So are you saying I'm wrong then or just trying to troll me ??
Sex God
Quote by GnV
an MP only seems to tell the truth when it suits them to do so, the rest of the 99% of the time they slither under those rocks. I cannot remember a time when an MP actually sat down and told it as it is, without the press forcing him or her to come clean.
George Galloway?
Dennis Skinner .... the legendary beast of Bolsover
The ex Viscount Stansfield
Arthur Scargill
This is a good game .... anyone else want to play
:lol: Sex God
No-one else seems to remember the crazy golf in the playground of Graves park.
Sex God
Quote by tweeky
Stagger.... shot...... wounded ..... cant take....... crushing attack on...... personality
Ohh well, all better now :P
I never said a thing ..I mean I only posted a link .....This is an obvious attempt to bully me I will not stand for it ..... :storms off in a huff
or possibly hough .. I don't care) Sex God
Quote by GregSH
GnV wrote that there are "a lot of good bits" about being in the EU. Kindly tell us of one worth the each per day membership fee (latest figure, produced by Professor of Economics Tim Congdon) if you would, GnV.
Please do not mention "peace in our time" (the oft quoted one) as that has been secured by NATO.
Can I suggest that G wait until you've answered some of the questions put to you .... you really are involved in politics aren't you
Evasive ... now there's a word
Sex God
All of the above are simple ...
here's mine
Experience a moment of pure internal calm and contentment
here's mine
Experience a moment of pure internal calm and contentment
