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gulsonroad30664
16 hours ago
Straight Male, 69
0 miles · Kenilworth

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Quote by Dave__Notts
So guls, you have gone two steps now after all this time of asking for the umpteenth time without you giving an answer.
1) Repudiate the debt
2) Nationalise the bank of england and have the elected government create credit not private banks
So after we tell everyone that we do not owe our national debt anymore so they can go whistle for their money and our new government with our new nationalised bank creates credit...........who will want to trade with us knowing that we can and will default on any of our future loans dunno
At least we are starting to get there slowly. How will you encourage foreign investors or buyers to trade with us
Dave_Notts

So now we have a third point:
3) They will trade with us as they are in the same boat.
Now is this hoping or fact? Your policies and proof are hard to accept as you are demonstrating it with fact based evidence.............just relying on telling me that you work in the financial sector and you have a good wage. You maybe right, but that is one helluva gamble.
dave research money as debt and go to " " it should help.
when people ask for solutions, i say it's not for me to lead you but for you to be enpowered with the knowledge to lead yourself. solutions come from knowledge not ignorance.
if you do not believe my "rants" (so discribed out of hostility to the conclusions) thats o.k but, i am absolutely certain that while i may be slandered and libeled now, as the crisis unfolds, i will be listened to and debated with, intelligently.
regards. alf
Dave_Notts
Quote by Max777
regardless of what you read on the company of the bank of englands website, the bank of england company limited is a private bank with private shareholders. only its debt was nationalised in 1946. it issues credit (banknotes, coin and computer digits) AT INTEREST that becomes debt at inception.
most other countries on the planet with the possible exception of china, but i would question that, are in debt to the international private banking cartel. iceland has refused to accept the debt forced upon it by the criminal (fraud, lawbreaking) landski bankski's and called for an international moretorium on debt. iceland is not the first. many countries from argentina in south america to malaya in the far east have rejected terms forced upon them by the international private banking cartel's front organisation, the i.m.f. and declared a moretorium on their debt.
would other countries trade with us if we repudiated the fictitous debt of financial instruments like credit default swaps ? of coarse they would. like they have before but more importantly because, they are in the same boat.
the german and french governments have just decided that they are not going to bail out the peripheral economies of the euro zone not because they are dirty rotters, but because they cant. the debt is too big even for them. watch this week as the hedgefund hyenas short irish, greek, portugese and spanish bonds to drive up the return for the increase risk that hangs over those countries.
no amount of increase in taxes and reductions in services or benefits, on top of those already imposed by the i.m.f. and e.c.b. on the populations (tax payers) to repay the debt created by the private banks can stop the collapse but unfortunately, the local politicians will try with all manner of bullshit explanations to cover up where the fraud comes from.
your sincerly and honestly.
ALF GARNET

Dear Alf
Everything I have ever read or been led to understand about the Bank of England tells me that the bank was nationalised by the then Labour Government in 1946, as part of their nationalisation plans. Now you tell me that isn't the case, please provide proof of your claim that it's a private company so I can see with my own eyes.
I also have to question your understanding of the national debt. I have provided a link to a website which is very informative and easy to understand and details the make up of that debt. It states that 39% of the debt is owed to insurance companies and pension funds. Shall we repudiate that debt and totally destroy people's pensions? You recently claimed that the government was out to steal our pensions, yet you advocate doing exactly the same.

Hopefully, this may provide some enlightenment. Somethings in life are exactly as they seem, one doesn't have to look for conspiracies at every turn.
Yours even more sincerely and honestly
A concerned wellwisher well wisher. research money as debt but before you do, get out a £10, £20 or £50 note and magnifiying glass and examine every inch and write down on paper all the words on it.
regards alf
regardless of what you read on the company of the bank of englands website, the bank of england company limited is a private bank with private shareholders. only its debt was nationalised in 1946. it issues credit (banknotes, coin and computer digits) AT INTEREST that becomes debt at inception.
most other countries on the planet with the possible exception of china, but i would question that, are in debt to the international private banking cartel. iceland has refused to accept the debt forced upon it by the criminal (fraud, lawbreaking) landski bankski's and called for an international moretorium on debt. iceland is not the first. many countries from argentina in south america to malaya in the far east have rejected terms forced upon them by the international private banking cartel's front organisation, the i.m.f. and declared a moretorium on their debt.
would other countries trade with us if we repudiated the fictitous debt of financial instruments like credit default swaps ? of coarse they would. like they have before but more importantly because, they are in the same boat.
the german and french governments have just decided that they are not going to bail out the peripheral economies of the euro zone not because they are dirty rotters, but because they cant. the debt is too big even for them. watch this week as the hedgefund hyenas short irish, greek, portugese and spanish bonds to drive up the return for the increase risk that hangs over those countries.
no amount of increase in taxes and reductions in services or benefits, on top of those already imposed by the i.m.f. and e.c.b. on the populations (tax payers) to repay the debt created by the private banks can stop the collapse but unfortunately, the local politicians will try with all manner of bullshit explanations to cover up where the fraud comes from.
your sincerly and honestly.
ALF GARNET
Quote by Dave__Notts
mmmmm. well it's true. you have sussed me out. i'm a guinness swigging, morning star reader who talks revolution in the pub. i'm a conspiracy theorist with no solutions who copies and posts, i have'nt got a clue wot i'm on about. i'm a failed drop out undergrad and no one should take any notice of my alf garnet rantings. everyone should accept all the debt that has been placed on their shoulders and suffer the consequences.
it was all our own doing and we should accept our fate and bury our heads in the sand and look after number one. listen to our leaders and go along with them. they have our interests at heart and they are only looking after us and everything they say is true.
i'm am just a failed drop out 40% tax paying idiot who woke up one morning in a 750 thousand pound house on 120k a year. goodness, life has been good to me. i just woke up one morning and it was all there. dont know anything about banking, credit, debt, fractional reserve, derivitives, collaterised debt obligations, securitised investment vehicles, credit default swaps and all that mallarky. just copied and posted it. invented all that stuff 12 months in advance about debt and soveriegn default. it was all pure coincidence. lucky that.

Still no solution then dunno
Dave_Notts
dave, for the umteenth time, repudiate the debt, nationalise the bank of england and have the elected government create credit not private banks. no amount of student protests, unions striking, demonstrations or provocateur inspired violence will have any effect if this is not done. and always hold your elected representative feet to the fire.
i will point a couple of thing out for the sake of the title of this thread.
1. if student tuition fees are raised to £9,000 it will mean the exclusion of the majority of working class and middle class from higher education and make it soley the domain of the top 2% as it was historically (oxbridge).
2. the closure of the majority (red brick universities) of higher education establishments including colledges and the resulting job losses for principles, lecturers, cooks, cleaners and administators will be the obvious result.
3. record bonuses for bankers and ignorance and paupery for everyone else.
4. no amount of austerity and cuts, increases in taxes, can resolve the debt crisis that has been created by the banking and monetary system and no amount of measures by the i.m.f., the e.c.b. the private federal reserve or the private bank of england can fix it and they, have absolutely no intention of doing so. if they did intend to, the first measure they would adopt would be an international debt moratorium and the introduction of regulation to prevent retail (chartered) banks from speculation and a firewall (glass steagal) from derivitives (in particular, collaterised debt obligations).
5. so i contend that those selected politicians and obviously some of their halfwit fellow travellers who believe it all, will go along with the financial terrorists and take us, our children and our childrens children to the bottom to live as serfs in penuary. meanwhile, on the way down, many will awaken from their x factor, football, coronation st and eastenders stupour. lets hope the more and sooner rather than later.
regards. alf garnet.
mmmmm. well it's true. you have sussed me out. i'm a guinness swigging, morning star reader who talks revolution in the pub. i'm a conspiracy theorist with no solutions who copies and posts, i have'nt got a clue wot i'm on about. i'm a failed drop out undergrad and no one should take any notice of my alf garnet rantings. everyone should accept all the debt that has been placed on their shoulders and suffer the consequences.
it was all our own doing and we should accept our fate and bury our heads in the sand and look after number one. listen to our leaders and go along with them. they have our interests at heart and they are only looking after us and everything they say is true.
i'm am just a failed drop out 40% tax paying idiot who woke up one morning in a 750 thousand pound house on 120k a year. goodness, life has been good to me. i just woke up one morning and it was all there. dont know anything about banking, credit, debt, fractional reserve, derivitives, collaterised debt obligations, securitised investment vehicles, credit default swaps and all that mallarky. just copied and posted it. invented all that stuff 12 months in advance about debt and soveriegn default. it was all pure coincidence. lucky that.
Quote by foxylady2209
Nurse, nurse - he's out of bed again.

brilliant foxy, i do talk a load of crap, should be in an asylum. we shall see.
an increase in tax equals a decrease in cash in circulation unless there is a corresponding increase in credit creation greater than the increase in tax. simples.
wake the fuck up, stop watching x factor, coronation st. and east enders and agent provocateurs smashing windows dressed in balaclavas.
this is a contrived demolition of the economy. greece, ireland, next spain and portugal, possibly then italy, in whatever order and the u.k. next ! but hey, i talk a load of bollocks.
OH AND I FORGOT. INCREASE TAXES, NATIONAL INSURANCE, V.A.T. AND PROPERTY TAXES AND PAY IT ALL TO THE I.M.F. TO SERVICE THE INTEREST ON YOUR BAIL-OUT LOAN TO KEEP THE BANKERS IN THE BONUSES THEY ARE USED TO.
REPUDIATE THE DEBT. DEFAULT, ITS NOT YOUR DEBT ANYWAY OR ALTERNATIVELY CALL IN THE I.M.F. AND ACCEPT ALL THE AUSTERITY AND HARDSHIP THAT WILL COME IN THE I.M.F.'S LAUNDRY LIST. JOB LOSES, PENSIONS STOPPED, BENEFITS DONE AWAY WITH, PRIVATISATION (THEFT), NEGLECT OF INFRASTRUCTURE, MEGA PROFIT FOR FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS AND TOTAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE AND DEEPER DEBT.
CLOSURE OF HOSPITALS, SCHOOLS, FIRE STATIONS, LIBRARIES, CUTS IN BENEFITS, CUTS IN HOUSING ALLOWANCES, EVICTION OF COUNCIL TENNANTS, COLLAPSING ASSET VALUES (HOUSES AND ALL PROPERTY), WHOLESALE CLOSURES OF COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES, WAGE CUTS, FACTORY CLOSURES.....I.M.F.'S TERMS FOR LOAN TO IRELAND TO SUPPORT THEIR PRIVATELY OWNED BANKS WHO'S SHAREHOLDERS AND CREDITORS DONT LOSE A PENNY AND WHO'S DIRECTORS ARE ENJOYING RECORD BONUSES... SOUNDS FAMILIAR
Quote by Too Hot
much snipped........
i am not countenancing the overthrow of any government but implicit in your aside that "every country in the world overthrows it's government" is that every government in the world is in debt, correct, who to and where did they get the money from ?
and yes, this is a worldwide problem, created deliberately and knowingly and i'm not suggesting we simply go back to tree hugging, i will leave that to the likes of prince charles, no, we go back to work. seeking solutions to this monetary breakdown from the very experts and political leaders that got us into this mess, who will only look after themselves at our expense is what is ridiculous.
if a debt of quadrillions has been created that has to be repaid by us, human kind, then who do we owe it to and where the fuck did they get it from to lend it to us ?
the people of iceland repudiated the debt of the international bankski's (dont know their specific names offhand) and rejected i.m.f. loans as well and to boot, booted their government with a pots and pans vigil and the police joined them.
the minority irish government has agreed an e.c.b. and i.m.f. loan to cover the irish banks loses and saddled it onto the backs of the irish people that can NEVER be repaid by 4 million people. the international bond holders know that and will aquire all irelands state assets, taxes, properties and cash in exchange for the debt that cannot be repaid. the loans that were created out of thin air were by fractional reserve of 50-70 to one and thats if you count the balance sheet assets of derivitives written down value as opposed to mark to market.
even after comitting this treasonable act, it did not bring about any stabilisation in the bond market, on the contrary, the hyenas turned their attentions to spanish banks and the most naked one there is santander. nothing revolutionary in what i'm saying too hot. it's the truth but you keep trying to figure out a solution with lies. regards

Look Guls - what is your solution to this problem in plain English?
We ain't going to arrest every leader of the civilised world and we cant get away with denying that we owe money unless the whole world joins in - so what is the answer?
Please don't insult us all with inane revolutionary ramblings - tell us in plain English how we all (the billions on normal, civilised people on the planet) get out of the mess other than tighten our belts and get on with it?
Thanks
well i dont know about revolutionary but there aint arf gonna be some pissed off old irishmen when they find out that their pension money pot that they paid into all their working lives has just gone down the bankers black hole to pay their bonuses. the fianna fail minority government (without mandate) has comitted paddies future pension to the senior bondholders (central banks) towards the national debt (private bank debt) that was transfered to the people.
solutions come from knowledge and truth, not ignorance and lies and i certainly do not have a monopoly on knowledge, truth and answers but, if you believe that the very people who got us into this mess give a fuk about you or i or have a solution, then rest your confidence in them and their experts while the shear you and us of everything we have worked and saved for.
trichet (head of the e.c.b.) has just comitted germany to underwrite the bondholders holdings after angle merkel, elected president of germany, vowed that germany would not bail-out the euro states debts and stated firmly that if the hard working citizens of germany and their savings had to take a haircut, then the bondholders should share in the pain by taking a haircut. where is she now ?
i ask you this question :- if the european central bank can print money (or digitise it into existance), the bank of england can print money and the federal reserve can print money, and when they do, they lend it at interest to european states, great britain and america, then who the fuck do we owe it to if they, as central banks are owned by their respective soveriegn states (citizens). ANSWER :- THEY ARE PRIVATE BANKS OWNED BY PRIVATE SHAREHOLDERS and that aint you and me ! AND THEY ARE THE SENIOR BONDHOLDERS THAT WONT TAKE A HAIRCUT. FUKIN LONGHAIRED YETIES.
Quote by Too Hot

now i have to come up with a solution, simple, REPUDIATE the debt

So if you were in charge you would just deny it exists. Ok, great. Now we have a starting point.
No idea what it is but say the UK has a pound debt. We repudiate it by PM Guls.......what would happen then? Do we just carry on as normal or would there be repercussions by other countries?
Dave_Notts
dave, if ireland owes a (billions) iceland owes b (billions) greece owes c (billions) portugal owes d (billions) spain owes e (billions) italy owes f (billions) latvia owes g (billions) estonia owes h (billions) hungary owes i (billions) bulgaria owes j (billions) all the african countries owe k (billions) mexico owes l (billions) argentina owes m (billions) the individual states in the u.s. owe n (billions) the u.s. federal government owes o TRILLIONS and britain owes p TRILLIONS, then who the fuck is it all owed to and where did they get it from to lend in the first place ? did theY magic it up out of thin air and charge it at interest ?
YES THEY DID ! ITS A FUCKING PONZI SCHEME SCAM AND A FRAUD !
REPUDIATE THE DEBT AND ARREST THE FRAUDSTERS AND THEIR POLITICAL HENCHMEN FOR FRAUD AND THEFT. if the watchdogs in the f.s.a. wont do it, then arrest them as well. and while your at it, arrest the fuckers at the ratings agency's that stamped unrepayable liar loans as triple A rated that would sooner rather than later turn out to be worthless pieces of paper !
we, our children and our childrens children are being indebted in perpetuaty to internatuional bloodsucking fraudsters and liars. their latest b.s. from their newly created office of budgetary bullshit is that not so many jobs will be lost and the economy is growing faster than they originally thought !$£&*^+! what a load of crap !
now that the forced loan from the e.c.b. and the i.m.f. on the people of ireland to save the insolvent banks and there shareholders, and there creditors in england, germany, france and the u.s. has not stemmed the tide of speculators shorting the euro and turning there attention to portugal, what was the point of giving in to them anyway ? if banks have made bad bets or been sold bum steers by their colleages, thats their problem. why should their loses it become ours while they pay themselves RECORD bonuses ?
Regrettably (fr you) your opinion would seem to be in a minority and not subscribed to by the majority of leading economists around the world. You love the expression Ponzi scheme but I have to inform you that to arrest world leaders require you to be a world leader yopurself and achieve sufficient support in the civilised world for your opinion to really matter at which time you could declare war and attack the Ponzi's to make them pay. Not sure if this would be a viable course of action or not - but like they say - every journey starts with the first step.
Then again we could just tell the whole world to F off and refuse to repay our debts - which I guess might be read by other civilised societies as gross irresponsibility.
Problem is - we are where we are - and Morning Star rantings do not get us out of this position. What is needed is a rational and civilised solution whilst adhering to accepted civilsied practices and International Law.
when did you canvass the majority of leading economists too hot ? if by that you mean the majority of so called economists and bussiness journalists quoted in the mainstream (establishment) media, then i guess you and they are right. defaulting on the debt merely requires the populus to reject it. will you be able to look your grandchildren in the eye and say "i'm sorry about your future but i was conditioned to believe i had to give it away"? then again, instead of saying fuck off to all the other people in the world that we, our children and our grandchildren dont owe a penny to, we could tell the charletans, theives and fraudsters to fuck off and refuse to hock humanity to the bastards.
if to you its reasonable and civilised to pay more in taxes, recieve less services, have your pension confiscated, lose your benefits, lose your job, lose your house and pass that on to your grandchildren, while city slickers, hedge fund managers and banksters enjoy their greatest payout in history after bankrupting themselves, then you are certainly more civilised than me. lets turn to them for the solution to the mess that they got us into. very civilised that. count dracula in charge of the blood bank comes to mind or even putting the fox in charge of the hen house.
what on earth the morning star has to do with all this sounds like diversion to me. why cant you discuss the mechanics/science of these issues instead of making what you consider jibes in reference to a left wing publication. have'nt caught sight of the morning star since i was a student and thats so long ago i'm suprised it's still going.
keep on rationalising and make sure you have a good stock of rations. keep your head low and hope that you and all your nearest and dearests are not one of the surplus to requirement eaters. and in the meantime, accept the debt and try to pay it back and i guarantee you, you will die trying. regards
Are you really countenancing that the government is overthrown by the population (or rather every country in the world has their government overthrown) and that the common man simply denies any debt exists and simply gets back to tree hugging and planting sufficient crops to feed the country and nothing more? Is this where you are coming from?
Meanwhile on planet earth, life goes on...................I really don't think you realise this is a worldwide problem requring a worldwide solution that is acceptable and pallatable to hundreds of millions of people across a multitude of cultural divides. Revolutionary nonsense is not the answer to this problem no matter how loud you shout it.
By the way, I was surplus to requirements two years ago in my late 40's but instead of whinging and spouting mindless clap trap and finger pointing I took responsibility for myself and did something about it. Suggest you aspire to a more positive outlook on life before you depress yourself to death.
i am not countenancing the overthrow of any government but implicit in your aside that "every country in the world overthrows it's government" is that every government in the world is in debt, correct, who to and where did they get the money from ?
and yes, this is a worldwide problem, created deliberately and knowingly and i'm not suggesting we simply go back to tree hugging, i will leave that to the likes of prince charles, no, we go back to work. seeking solutions to this monetary breakdown from the very experts and political leaders that got us into this mess, who will only look after themselves at our expense is what is ridiculous.
if a debt of quadrillions has been created that has to be repaid by us, human kind, then who do we owe it to and where the fuck did they get it from to lend it to us ?
the people of iceland repudiated the debt of the international bankski's (dont know their specific names offhand) and rejected i.m.f. loans as well and to boot, booted their government with a pots and pans vigil and the police joined them.
the minority irish government has agreed an e.c.b. and i.m.f. loan to cover the irish banks loses and saddled it onto the backs of the irish people that can NEVER be repaid by 4 million people. the international bond holders know that and will aquire all irelands state assets, taxes, properties and cash in exchange for the debt that cannot be repaid. the loans that were created out of thin air were by fractional reserve of 50-70 to one and thats if you count the balance sheet assets of derivitives written down value as opposed to mark to market.
even after comitting this treasonable act, it did not bring about any stabilisation in the bond market, on the contrary, the hyenas turned their attentions to spanish banks and the most naked one there is santander. nothing revolutionary in what i'm saying too hot. it's the truth but you keep trying to figure out a solution with lies. regards
Quote by foxylady2209
snip (cos it was boring) i mean no ill will to anyone and certainly no one on here, regardless how much i am slandered. guls.

That would be libelled. Slander is verbal, libel is published. Clearly you know rather less about very common legal principles than you claim to about all things financial.
excellent exposition of the issues raised foxy. i will bring it to the attention of the monetary policy committee so they can consider it when deciding on q.e.3 or future interest rates. regards
Quote by Too Hot

now i have to come up with a solution, simple, REPUDIATE the debt

So if you were in charge you would just deny it exists. Ok, great. Now we have a starting point.
No idea what it is but say the UK has a pound debt. We repudiate it by PM Guls.......what would happen then? Do we just carry on as normal or would there be repercussions by other countries?
Dave_Notts
dave, if ireland owes a (billions) iceland owes b (billions) greece owes c (billions) portugal owes d (billions) spain owes e (billions) italy owes f (billions) latvia owes g (billions) estonia owes h (billions) hungary owes i (billions) bulgaria owes j (billions) all the african countries owe k (billions) mexico owes l (billions) argentina owes m (billions) the individual states in the u.s. owe n (billions) the u.s. federal government owes o TRILLIONS and britain owes p TRILLIONS, then who the fuck is it all owed to and where did they get it from to lend in the first place ? did theY magic it up out of thin air and charge it at interest ?
YES THEY DID ! ITS A FUCKING PONZI SCHEME SCAM AND A FRAUD !
REPUDIATE THE DEBT AND ARREST THE FRAUDSTERS AND THEIR POLITICAL HENCHMEN FOR FRAUD AND THEFT. if the watchdogs in the f.s.a. wont do it, then arrest them as well. and while your at it, arrest the fuckers at the ratings agency's that stamped unrepayable liar loans as triple A rated that would sooner rather than later turn out to be worthless pieces of paper !
we, our children and our childrens children are being indebted in perpetuaty to internatuional bloodsucking fraudsters and liars. their latest b.s. from their newly created office of budgetary bullshit is that not so many jobs will be lost and the economy is growing faster than they originally thought !$£&*^+! what a load of crap !
now that the forced loan from the e.c.b. and the i.m.f. on the people of ireland to save the insolvent banks and there shareholders, and there creditors in england, germany, france and the u.s. has not stemmed the tide of speculators shorting the euro and turning there attention to portugal, what was the point of giving in to them anyway ? if banks have made bad bets or been sold bum steers by their colleages, thats their problem. why should their loses it become ours while they pay themselves RECORD bonuses ?
Regrettably (fr you) your opinion would seem to be in a minority and not subscribed to by the majority of leading economists around the world. You love the expression Ponzi scheme but I have to inform you that to arrest world leaders require you to be a world leader yopurself and achieve sufficient support in the civilised world for your opinion to really matter at which time you could declare war and attack the Ponzi's to make them pay. Not sure if this would be a viable course of action or not - but like they say - every journey starts with the first step.
Then again we could just tell the whole world to F off and refuse to repay our debts - which I guess might be read by other civilised societies as gross irresponsibility.
Problem is - we are where we are - and Morning Star rantings do not get us out of this position. What is needed is a rational and civilised solution whilst adhering to accepted civilsied practices and International Law.
when did you canvass the majority of leading economists too hot ? if by that you mean the majority of so called economists and bussiness journalists quoted in the mainstream (establishment) media, then i guess you and they are right. defaulting on the debt merely requires the populus to reject it. will you be able to look your grandchildren in the eye and say "i'm sorry about your future but i was conditioned to believe i had to give it away"? then again, instead of saying fuck off to all the other people in the world that we, our children and our grandchildren dont owe a penny to, we could tell the charletans, theives and fraudsters to fuck off and refuse to hock humanity to the bastards.
if to you its reasonable and civilised to pay more in taxes, recieve less services, have your pension confiscated, lose your benefits, lose your job, lose your house and pass that on to your grandchildren, while city slickers, hedge fund managers and banksters enjoy their greatest payout in history after bankrupting themselves, then you are certainly more civilised than me. lets turn to them for the solution to the mess that they got us into. very civilised that. count dracula in charge of the blood bank comes to mind or even putting the fox in charge of the hen house.
what on earth the morning star has to do with all this sounds like diversion to me. why cant you discuss the mechanics/science of these issues instead of making what you consider jibes in reference to a left wing publication. have'nt caught sight of the morning star since i was a student and thats so long ago i'm suprised it's still going.
keep on rationalising and make sure you have a good stock of rations. keep your head low and hope that you and all your nearest and dearests are not one of the surplus to requirement eaters. and in the meantime, accept the debt and try to pay it back and i guarantee you, you will die trying. regards
Quote by Dave__Notts

now i have to come up with a solution, simple, REPUDIATE the debt

So if you were in charge you would just deny it exists. Ok, great. Now we have a starting point.
No idea what it is but say the UK has a pound debt. We repudiate it by PM Guls.......what would happen then? Do we just carry on as normal or would there be repercussions by other countries?
Dave_Notts
dave, if ireland owes a (billions) iceland owes b (billions) greece owes c (billions) portugal owes d (billions) spain owes e (billions) italy owes f (billions) latvia owes g (billions) estonia owes h (billions) hungary owes i (billions) bulgaria owes j (billions) all the african countries owe k (billions) mexico owes l (billions) argentina owes m (billions) the individual states in the u.s. owe n (billions) the u.s. federal government owes o TRILLIONS and britain owes p TRILLIONS, then who the fuck is it all owed to and where did they get it from to lend in the first place ? did theY magic it up out of thin air and charge it at interest ?
YES THEY DID ! ITS A FUCKING PONZI SCHEME SCAM AND A FRAUD !
REPUDIATE THE DEBT AND ARREST THE FRAUDSTERS AND THEIR POLITICAL HENCHMEN FOR FRAUD AND THEFT. if the watchdogs in the f.s.a. wont do it, then arrest them as well. and while your at it, arrest the fuckers at the ratings agency's that stamped unrepayable liar loans as triple A rated that would sooner rather than later turn out to be worthless pieces of paper !
we, our children and our childrens children are being indebted in perpetuaty to internatuional bloodsucking fraudsters and liars. their latest b.s. from their newly created office of budgetary bullshit is that not so many jobs will be lost and the economy is growing faster than they originally thought !$£&*^+! what a load of crap !
now that the forced loan from the e.c.b. and the i.m.f. on the people of ireland to save the insolvent banks and there shareholders, and there creditors in england, germany, france and the u.s. has not stemmed the tide of speculators shorting the euro and turning there attention to portugal, what was the point of giving in to them anyway ? if banks have made bad bets or been sold bum steers by their colleages, thats their problem. why should their loses it become ours while they pay themselves RECORD bonuses ?
Quote by flower411
The last Prime Minister made a lot of noise about stopping "Boom and Bust" policies and yet still promoted "constant economic growth" ....
There appear to be lots of experts on here so can somebody explain how this works ?
As far as I can see there is loads of evidence showing that constant economic growth leads to inevitable bust ....
Can anybody show an economy that has shown constant growth for more than ten years that has been advantageous to the majority of the population living within the influence of that economy ?

flower, i hope that this response is not taken as patronising, too complex or doom and gloom but a truthful answer.
when g.b. said he had brought an end to boom and bust he was knowingly lying through his teeth.
the creation of private credit (new money) at interest is the source of the problem.
if a financial institution can create and lend credit at interest, then it or they must continually continue to do so (exponentially) lest all the credit created would end up back with them eventually by way of interest. this concept you must grasp first in order to understand growth of the money supply (inflation) and increase in all classes of asset values and primarily in property values as this is the "general" route of of new money creation along with government borrowing.
eventually, the lenders must cease new credit creation as the sum total of interest required to service the created money becomes greater than is humanly (aggregate of worldwide production) possible. at this point it becomes obvious to all the lenders that the interest debt and principle cannot possibly be repaid and that each of them who have loans to each other they stop lending to each other as they all believe they have bad loans on their books which they all hide (off balance sheet accounting)
this is very simplified and does not account for derivitives (fraud) or fractional resrve but makes clear the fact that if credit (money) is created in the form of loans (debt) at interest, there must always be boom ((increase in money supply)inflation) and bust ((decrease in money supply)deflation)
unfortunately there will be many critics of this explanation and of me personally on here. people dont like to hear the truth and will always shoot the messenger. hope this helps. regards
Quote by Too Hot

The simple reason that the banks were not allowed to fail is that it would have taken this country back to the dark Ages. Contrast that with the Americans taking a different approach and allowing wholesale bank failures and the economic situation there is much worse than in Europe and the Americans now looking for ways of re-capitalising their banks following the European model.
Having a banking system whereby business and private individuals could not risk saving would have set the UK back a hundred years and isolated in the world.

with the greatest respect too hot, you have absolutely no concept whatsoever of banking, finance or credit and absolutely no idea of the tsunami thats about to hit. sorry if this appears patronising. keep watching x factor and corrie. best wishes, honestly, regards
Avoiding the obvious baiting - I am asking you for the solution?
Either banks or kept afloat or they are left to die. Europe chose one route, USA chose the other and the USA now realise this mistake. There are hundreds of thousands of Politicians, businessmen and financial experts all over the world prepared to take a positive view on the steps being taken and debating the results of actions taken and how better to to react to the unfolding crisis.
Then, on this Site, we have you. The flag bearer of all things laden with death, despair and gloom. No suggestions, no answers, no ideas and no real contribution to the discussion other than - look at me, I'm telling you the end of the world is nigh, its all going to end but it is far too complicated to explain why...... Yeh right on.
too hot, your recollection of recent history is obscure. lehman brothers was allowed to fail in the u.s. along with umpteen other financial institutions including washington mutual and indy mac have gone to the wall with the f.d.i.c. only securing retail deposits. they have been allowed to sink not float ! bought and paid for politicians have underwritten private banks and their shareholders with present and future tax payers money all over the world. they do not have the same confidence in what they are doing that you have.
listen to angela merkel of germany, she says bond and shareholders should share some of the pain with a haircut, purely said for public consumption, and then what does she do for the irish people saddled with the private debt and insolvency of anglo irish, allied irish and bank of ireland ? she sponsors an e.c.b./i.m.f. loan at 6+ % to the irish government over 4 years that could never be repaid over a million years !
i am sorry you attribute death, despair and gloom to me for i have done nothing other than tell the truth, not as i see it but how it is. the end of the world is not nigh and i have never said so. these politicians tell you to take the swine flu jab for your own good because there will be a pandemic if you dont. they have told you the seas will rise and flood coastal towns killing millions because of global warming. these politicians tell you to go to war over weapons of mass destruction and find none.
they tell you that youve got to bail out the irish with your taxes because we do a lot of trade with them and they are our friends ! bollox. the british taxpayer is being indebted to international finance and banking to save lloyds, r.b.s. barclays and h.s.b.c who are creditors of allied irish, anglo irish and bank of ireland BANKS and the debt of 167 billion pounds goes on the backs of 4 million irishmen !
i did not create a worldwide fraudulent ponzi sheme thats about to collapse, wall st. and the city of london did with the total compliance of the political hyenas that you have confidence in coming up with a solution for you ! NOT COMPLICATED, SIMPLE
now i have to come up with a solution, simple, REPUDIATE the debt, it was created by fraud (not my words, the words of alan greenspan, ex chairman of the federal reserve at the press conference celebrating 100 years of the federal reserve at jekle island) because it can never be repaid anyway and is designed that way !
where did i say that it was all too complicated ? its fukin simple, we are being ripped off and we, our children and our childrens children will live as serfs in perpetuaty because we were too busy watching x factor and coronation street and football to do anything about it !
to paddy in dublin, alfonse in lisbon, francoise in paris, michael in athens, borg in iceland, STAND FIRM for we are still asleep.
Quote by Freckledbird

with the greatest respect too hot, you have absolutely no concept whatsoever of banking, finance or credit and absolutely no idea of the tsunami thats about to hit. sorry if this appears patronising. keep watching x factor and corrie. best wishes, honestly, regards

So, Guls - tell us what you'd do to sort the problem. You keep ignoring requests to do that, don't you? I don't think you have any idea either - you're probably copying and pasting from elsewhere. Sorry if that sounds patronising, but you're so quick to run others down without providing any answers to anyone.
freckle, look who called who what from previous posts. mine is a QUALIFIED REACTION and objective based on the explanation in the response. absolutely, fundamentaly no grasp whatsoever of economics or banking ! there is a temporary solution. since governments have already socialised the private debts of the financial institutions which they should not have done, now default, the debt cannot be repaid and is designed not to ! that would be a start. regards. i mean no ill will to anyone and certainly no one on here, regardless how much i am slandered. guls.
Quote by Too Hot
Absolutely correct Dave - Guls is the archetype Pub doomsday merchant - all doom and gloom and never offering a theory as to how to get a solution. Everyone has theories and opinions and it is healthy to debate the merits and downsides of them all. Unfortunately Guls simply posts the same Doomsday theory in every post he makes without even a whiff of a suggestion as to a theoretical response. I have known other people on other forums do this and it was as a result of quoting something they had read and/or seen which looked good but they did not fully understand it therefore were unable to debate it.

If pressed, Guls will probably subscribe to the theory that the whole Irish situation can be resolved over a glass (or two) extra of Guinness per day as the extra tax and duty paid will contribute significantly to the debt reduction. :grin:
Perhaps, But tell me what kind of system do we have where those responsible for the majority of the problems facing western economies i.e. Financial services institutions are bailed out with taxpayer money, subsidised via 0 percent interest rates while the common man's savings are eroded through inflation?
To add insult to injury, top executives and traders at these firms are actually being rewarded by companies removing off their balance sheets billions and paying it to themselves as bonuses - while divdends are cut and Enron style accounting is used on their balance sheets to show "profits".
Although the poster did not offer a solution, he is pointing out what is wrong. My point is if the vast majority of the public were aware of the scale the fraud that was occurring, and it was not mistakenly described as "banker bashing" there would be riots in the square mile every day.
Do you honestly believe there was no other solution? How about if the government made whole all deposits (not credit) in these banks(Yes 100..percent) and let the banks fail. That would have cost a fraction of this "bailout".
Interestingly, RBS has a £53bn in exposure to Irish debt and Lloyds/HBOS has 27bn, which is why our government is giving money to Ireland. Of course Cameron and co will spin it as helping out our merry Irish neighbours (in fact most Sun and Dail Mail readers and editors will believe this) but really it's bailout Part Deux for Lloyds and RBS. Of course in November when RBS made a loss of , compensation ratio increased from 25 to 34 percent of revenue..good work lads.
I wish what I was writing were absolute lies, but you couldn't make up a story in economic terms more morally repugnant than the truth. Labour or Conservatives? What does it matter? Money is their God, so the Bankers will always run this country.
Sorry for a moment..I forgot this was a swingers site!
The simple reason that the banks were not allowed to fail is that it would have taken this country back to the dark Ages. Contrast that with the Americans taking a different approach and allowing wholesale bank failures and the economic situation there is much worse than in Europe and the Americans now looking for ways of re-capitalising their banks following the European model.
Having a banking system whereby business and private individuals could not risk saving would have set the UK back a hundred years and isolated in the world.
with the greatest respect too hot, you have absolutely no concept whatsoever of banking, finance or credit and absolutely no idea of the tsunami thats about to hit. sorry if this appears patronising. keep watching x factor and corrie. best wishes, honestly, regards
Quote by Too Hot
the people of ireland have been saddled with a debt of 2 to 300 billion euro's. no matter how austere its government reduces spending and increases taxes, which they will try to do, it is an impossible debt plus interest to pay for 4 million people.
their government will have to give up all the countries assets to their debtors, tax their people to death and remove all services, and that will not get them out of debt.
irelands international private banks, bank of ireland, allied irish and anglo irish banks, played poker on the international markets in derivitives and property speculation (bad bets) and lost. they became insolvent and the irish government underwrote them with present and future taxation reciepts and made the irish people responsible for those private banks and bondholders liabilities (loses).
so, like here, the debts created by fraud and bad loans gets passed from the shareholders and investors in banks to the people who are then shorn of their wealth and or social gains while the banksters enjoy record bonuses. stay asleep or watch x factor and everything will be o.k. tomorrow for you. anyway iceland and greece are miles away, for that matter, so is ireland, so dont worry, it cant happen here, can it ?
"this, the mother of all crisis" not my words but those of paul volker, ex chairman of the federal reserve (no more federal than federal express) in january 2009 at a meeting of bussiness leaders in new york, is unresolvable under the present private international monetary system and can only lead from currency wars to trade war to physical war and the destruction of mankind. awaken from your slumber and television hypnosis.

How would you solve the problem then? Start from now with a blank canvas
Dave_Notts
Absolutely correct Dave - Guls is the archetype Pub doomsday merchant - all doom and gloom and never offering a theory as to how to get a solution. Everyone has theories and opinions and it is healthy to debate the merits and downsides of them all. Unfortunately Guls simply posts the same Doomsday theory in every post he makes without even a whiff of a suggestion as to a theoretical response. I have known other people on other forums do this and it was as a result of quoting something they had read and/or seen which looked good but they did not fully understand it therefore were unable to debate it.
too hot,
i will debate credit/debt, finance, banking, fractional reserve lending, interest, derivitives, collaterised debt obligations, credit default swaps, securitised investment vehicles, bussiness (credit) cycles and any other manner of international fraudulent ponzi schemes with you or anyone else on this site or any other medium, including a public house bar room (if there will be any left open)! regards, guls.
the people of ireland have been saddled with a debt of 2 to 300 billion euro's. no matter how austere its government reduces spending and increases taxes, which they will try to do, it is an impossible debt plus interest to pay for 4 million people.
their government will have to give up all the countries assets to their debtors, tax their people to death and remove all services, and that will not get them out of debt.
irelands international private banks, bank of ireland, allied irish and anglo irish banks, played poker on the international markets in derivitives and property speculation (bad bets) and lost. they became insolvent and the irish government underwrote them with present and future taxation reciepts and made the irish people responsible for those private banks and bondholders liabilities (loses).
so, like here, the debts created by fraud and bad loans gets passed from the shareholders and investors in banks to the people who are then shorn of their wealth and or social gains while the banksters enjoy record bonuses. stay asleep or watch x factor and everything will be o.k. tomorrow for you. anyway iceland and greece are miles away, for that matter, so is ireland, so dont worry, it cant happen here, can it ?
"this, the mother of all crisis" not my words but those of paul volker, ex chairman of the federal reserve (no more federal than federal express) in january 2009 at a meeting of bussiness leaders in new york, is unresolvable under the present private international monetary system and can only lead from currency wars to trade war to physical war and the destruction of mankind. awaken from your slumber and television hypnosis.
i'm sorry to inform you all that unless the creation of credit (money) is in the hands of a government of the people, by the people, for the people, while it is in the hands of private banks (the private bank of england company limited), there is no other solution to the contrived deliberate debt crisis that is intended to us all of our wealth and impoverish us all into serfdom. those of us who survive that is.
i ask again, if the existing government of the u.k. can instruct the bank of england to print money, then who the fuck do we owe it to ?
in a short period of time, we will look a back and know we never had it so good. an economic tsunami is about to hit. perhaps the old duffer knows something most others dont.
but it sure makes cameron, clegg, osborne and all the other bankers puppets look better. frigin rubbish. there never was or is a "double dip" "coming out of recession" "green shoots"
ireland was forced to accept a bail out loan from the e.c.b. and i.m.f. on the peoples back to pass it on to the insolvent anglo irish and allied irish banks that owe barlays, h.s.b.c., r.b.s. and deutche banks ten times more than irelands g.d.p.
the fraudulently created debt cannot be repaid and all the politicians are doing is socialising private bank debt of a ponzi scheme that makes "madoff" appear a saint by comparison, onto the burden laden backs of the people and the osbournes, camerons, cleggs and millibands WILL do the same here.
batten down the hatches, we are in for a storm.
Quote by deancannock
firstly let me say.....I do not condone and never will condone violence.
However I said in another thread.....that to watch for a 2011 year of unrest and a summer of riots. So many people will be thrown out of work....they will be fighting for their own and their families survival .... this is not just public sector workers. I work for a large multi national company...or should I say I did !! We had a meeting a week ago and they stated that due to the change in government and its policys they have had a economic projection for the UK done. The answer is they came back with is a double dip recession is forcast for 2011....without doubt. Therefore they have decided to cut their UK work force by 25%. Just so happens one is me. Many more across the country will follow. A large number of people all feeling threatened and scared for their familes future........yep I think you will find these student riots were small fry, to what you are going to see this coming year !!!!
sorry to hear the green shoots have turned to dead weeds for you deano. i sincerly hope that something turns up for you.
sadly medway, although i have'nt watched the documentary, i can only presume that the commentators and supposed economists accept the fraudulent ponzi scheme created by the private central banks and their underlings as legitimate and therefore the debts as legitimate and real. watch the financial news closely this week as the irish crisis unfolds followed by portugal, spain and greece. as merkel, the heads of the e.c.b etc insist on lower leverage of credit default swaps and holders try to gain liquidity.
the conflicts created by the feds q.e. will force protectionism and actions to preserve markets and margin calls to rise exponentially. the collapse has been only been temporarily defered by the tranfere of private debt to soveriegn but its too great. look out, many british banks and hedge funds are holding enormous amounts of irish bonds that, no matter how much austerity the irish government imposes on its people, can never be repaid and everyone knows it. thats why the euro is under pressure but the talk behind the smoke about ireland is probably britain. regards
having watched various clips of the lone masked hooded, fit bodied, student raming a window, with aghast looking, unmasked students onlooking, and prepared journalists and photographers filming, unchallenged and not detained or arrested, i can only conclude that it was a stage managed provocation that only serves the interests of the state and demotes the message of the protest below that of violence, rioting and hooliganism.
in no way do i or any other sane people condone this wanton vandalism and i'm absolutley sure no other student does either.
al qaeder was formed under the carter administration by the c.i.a., armed, trained and funded by the c.i.a. and led in the field by osama bin laden of the wealthy saudi bin laden family closely associated with the bush family and shareholders of the carlyle group. the "data base", loosely translated from arabic "al qaeder" was the c.i.a. enrolement of the mujahadeen fighters recruited by the c.i.a. and led by osama bin laden firstly to overthrow the pro soviet government in kabul and later the soviet occupying forces in afghanistan.
this proxy american war was the policy of zbignew brezinski, foreign policy adviser to the white house and part of the continueing geo-strategic strategy of the u.s. to maintain its economic and military primacy in the world.
eurasia (turkmenistan, uzbekistan, georgia, caspian sea area, afghanistan, iraq, pakistan and iran) have under their soil, the largest deposits of oil, gas and minerals on the planet.
as brezinski points out in his book "the grand chessboard", it is essential, in order for america to maintain its primacy into the next century, it must secure these reserves and prevent russia, india and china from aquiring them. in order to acheive this aim, the american people must percieve a threat in order to go along with the necessary wars and occupations that will be required to carry out this policy. in order to create this perceived level of fear, a catastrophic event on the scale of pear harbour will be required.
al qaeder is run by the c.i.a. and osama bin laden (if he is still alive aged or not) and al alawaky the c.i.a. lacky serve the interests of american imperialist interests and have not changed sides. i am amazed at the propaganda power of the media but even more so peoples inability to join up the dots.
mmm. tutu was never shut up by the state, arrested or detained, never made an outlaw or tortured. had freedom of travel. only ever preached non violence to the africans in the midst of horrific violence of the apartied state. mmmm ?
i remember the big public meeting in the barbican centre when the lancaster house talks were taking place and joshua nkomo said..."the white man came to africa and he had the bible and we had the land.....big pause....now he's got the land and we've got the bible"
mmmmmmmm i wonder ?
i thought this thread was about the question "what is cia qaeder"? ft london july 2010
top aid to osama bin liner, al alawaki dines with pentagon to brass months after 9/11,
in the public domain folks.
now al cia qaeder is in yemen posting printer bombs to chicago via east midlands on non existant ups flights out of yemen ? funny how they moved from afghanistan to iraq and now the gateway to the straights of hormuz further surrouding iran. funny how they are fermenting civil war in yemen and being drone attacked along with pakistan ? oh, and now alawaki is head honcho of ciaqaeder masterminding all manner of terror.
funny how the "grand chessboard" published in 1997 lays out the very geostrategic plan to secure the oil, gas and minerals of eurasia to maintain america's primacy in the world by creating a perceived threat of terror with a catastrophic event on the scale of pearl harbour in order to get the diverse, multicultural americans to go along with the necessary wars and occupations of the very same, exact countries they are in ?
funny that innit ?