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tomu
Over 90 days ago
Straight Male, 53
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by Kaznkev
A strange one....This was in the Mail today...

Certainly does not help matters!

I know you'll think I'm being antagonistic, but in what way does this thoughtful and carefully reasoned decision to impose a community sentence not help matters?
I was intriged by the way the womans bisexuality was deemed so relevant it was in the opening sentance ,could regular readers tell me if all articles start with the persons sexuality dunno
Well, obviously all bisexuals are evil sex-obsessed liars, Kaznkev.
Back to the OP... I think that you're always responsible for your actions but not for anyone else's. So if you put yourself in a vulnerable position by drinking so much you can't stand up and then blundering your way home down darkened back streets... t will have to be admitted that you did a stupid thing. Doesn't mean you deserve to be , or that someone else's decision to you is in any way less wrong, but it is definitely true that you did a stupid thing and you bear responsibility for that. In the same way that if you leave your front door open and get robbed, the thief has still committed theft and can be prosecuted for that, but your insurance considers you responsible for compromising your security and won't repay you for the goods.
Foxy, I agree that someone who gets themselves drunk is liable for their actions in that even if they were too drunk to control their actions after becoming intoxicated, they still chose to get intoxicated and this applies to rapists as well.
The one exception is if they (back to victims now) didn't choose to get intoxicated:
Quote by Kaznkev
For those who would object i would ask what is the difference between sex with a woman comatose thru drink and a woman drugged with a drug?

Clear, people normally get drunk through their own actions and do therefore have to accept responsibility for shoving the booze down their necks.
a drunk person is still and it's still wrong. Having consensual sex with a drunk person is clearly not a crime, or else we would all be guilty. Having consensual sex with someone who is going to regret it in the morning is also not a crime, or else I've been quite a few times. Having sex with someone who is soooooo drunk they can hardly talk, move or respond to the world around them is... pretty bad. In fact I'd say it's . But, it's not always easy to tell how drunk someone else is, particularly given that people continue becoming drunker as alcohol works its way into their system. I had quite a rational conversation with someone on Saturday night who can't remember it at all now, because she was hammered.
Anywhere between mildly tipsy with reduced inhibitions and comatose, there lies a grey area, if someone appears to be consenting (of course if they're drunkenly refusing there's no grey area at all). It's not very ethical to be taking advantage of someone who's really drunk, unless you're sure they want to be taken advantage of. But at exactly what stage a person becomes incapable of consenting is a really hard issue to define in court, which is why you shouldn't take yourself too close to that line unless you know you're in a safe environment.
If the victim is drunk it's still , and it's still wrong, but they are going to have difficulty making their evidence credible in court if they can't remember what they said; and if they appear to have said yes it becomes a hard case to win. Bottom line, you're responsible for your own safety. If you don't walk down dangerous streets alone late at night, and if you don't get massively drunk unless you're with people who are looking out for you, you are less likely to be . And at the end of the day not being is much better than being and winning the trial. If you expose yourself to risk, you are responsible for your actions in doing that. If someone else takes advantage of it, they're responsible for their actions in you.
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by duncanlondon
There is a thing called Pageants in the USA. Where young girls dress up and perform to the best of their abilities, a variety of inoffensive things. Jordan's daughter looks like that kind of thing. its a bit ott, but its not a sexual thing.
If anyone can look at that picture and feel sexual, they had probably better seek help. Also engineering a debate down that line is a bit weird. Its just not anything to do with sex.
These ideas of converging kids along with sexuality is becoming too commonplace. It seems to be one the first things we consider when discussing kids. It really doesn't make sense to develop such things too much.

I agree with the OP, I think this stuff is messed up, but then I don't think that's new in the case of Jordan really.
I think pageants are sick, I really do. I'm pretty stunned to see pageants being held up as a positive example for anything. Teaching young children to make themselves up like porn stars is weird. (or dolls - those are the two ways this can be interpreted)
I mean, porn stars looking like porn stars is one thing (and not to a lot of people's tastes on this forum apparently, to judge from the porn thread currently running in the cafe), and porn stars being deliberately chosen to look like young girls is another, somewhat odd, thing, but teaching very young girls to make themselves look like porn stars is a very very weird thing.
You can make a strong case that this kind of stuff, even overlooking the sexual connotations, has a role in objectification - girls being taught that the single most important thing in life is the way they look is damaging; and I also have a problem with that particular ideal of beauty - the eyeliner mascara blusher lipstick fake tan fake eyelashes fake boobs fake everything approach - being taught to children because it basically says: there is nothing good about the inner you - you have to hide it and cover it up with this (again) weirdly fictionalised, shallow, one-dimensional facade. if you're going to train young children to do all of that to their exteriors, what are the effects on their interiors? My money is on a higher chance of eating disorders, low self-esteem, and all the maladaptive behaviours that this can cause.
If you're going to say "it's all just a bit of fun, don't be silly" - just look at her mum! Jordan is the walking example of where this can lead; except that unlike a lot of people who've gone down that route she's actually managed to keep earning a decent living from it. Pretty shocking to think of it but she's come out better than a lot of the people on this path...
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by neilinleeds
its for the pacifying of the american public who are mad about tarp and bonuses.

Sod the bonuses Gulson, what's all this about tarps? I wasn't aware that canvas coverings or otherwise water-proofed, polymer coated materials were of such interest to our friends across the pond? dunno confused I've a sneaking suspicion you're leading me up the garden path sunshine, but if they're really all that mad for 'em, I've got shitloads tucked away under t'mezzanine in t'warehouse? biggrin
Gulson, come 'ere? Quietly mind. What can you get on Ebay for 'em these days then? :dunno:
*rubs hands*
N x x x ;)
Haha Neil :-)
Yeah... as some other people have said, it's a nice idea but it's hard to see it working; partly because of the "needing to be totally international" thing as mentioned above, and partly because as someone said, nobody has ever managed to make anything stick on banks, they just find a way to pass it off.
What about another idea though, we could have... not bailed them out and spent the money on something more useful? Because once we've given them our money, they're experts at not letting us have it back; that's their job, pretty much.
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by kentswingers777
I know of three people, two South Africans and one Pole who are here on " student vises ". Yeah right. One of them has only been there for seven months out of four years, and the other two have not spent a year there between them.

Funny, I wouldn't have thought the Pole would bother with visa fraud given that as a national of the European Economic Area they're entitled to free movement and working rights anywhere in Europe (don't you remember the millions of Poles the Mail was telling you would flood in as soon as they had the right? They didn't come in anywhere near the numbers they predicted by the way, and mostly they only stay for a year or two.) Sorry, do you want to make that one up again?
Quote by kentswingers777
No checks at all are made as to who attends and who does not....and there are thousands of them out there. A lot of them then earn money on the black market which helps nobody except the dishonest employer yet....when they need NHS treatment, guess what mugs pick up the tab?

Where is your evidence for this paragraph? This is the pattern - misrepresented evidence followed up by faulty logic or prejudice. This is just what the paper has told you, isn't it? My University does checks; students who do not attend a certain proportion of lectures and classes are expelled in short order, and their visas revoked where relevant. In my department the undergraduates miss three classes before coming under investigation, and if they're awol for a month they're off the books, period. If it bothers you so much, if you have any evidence your South African friends are committing visa fraud or are working in the black market, you should report them to the police. Believe me, once immigration get stuck in they'll be on a plane pretty quick with very few questions asked. Unless of course it's you that's employing them cash in hand?
Because nobody dares to speak in favour of immigration, these kind of misheard, misremembered, misunderstood half- or non-truths can often go unchallenged and can take hold. It's irresponsible to spout bigotry without getting your facts straight (of course, it's not very nice even when it is accurate), because what's at stake here is the rise of fascism. I agree with the suggestions higher in this thread that it seems more serious now than maybe 20 years ago - the established parties have failed the electorate, we're in a serious recession, and the BNP are really trying to make themselves look like a proper option.
I'm not Tony Blair. I'm only tenuously a Labour supporter. I think Tony Blair has done more to kill politics in this country than anyone else, the gutless lying shit. I find relatively little to vote for in any of the political parties. But, sadly, there is enough to vote against; primarily the BNP and secondly the Conservatives. I don't believe the Tories are evil, but I'd much rather a world in which they're not in power. The BNP though is emphatically worth voting against.
Quote by kentswingers777
How many are doing this it is impossible to know but....if I know of three in my tiny circle of people, then there must be thousands of them.

I don't know any non-EEA nationals who are committing visa fraud (or any EEA nationals doing it unnecessarily, either). I do know lots of overseas students. Generally because they're paying up to £20,000/year in tuition fees, they take their courses very seriously indeed I know a Chilean girl who, given that she has a German grandfather, is actually eligible for an EU passport, but because her parents didn't register her as dual nationality when she was born, doesn't have the automatic rights she could have had; however it doesn't matter, as she's achieved a PhD by the age of 25 and has got a job through her sheer brilliance. Isn't it ridiculous though? because of a technicality she either is or isn't considered worthy of being here?
The restaurant in my workplace is run by a Belarussian girl who works two jobs to support her bankrupt (and fairly lazy) English boyfriend's failing business to the tune of £5000 just this year. She's allowed to do this because she had a visa marriage about five years ago; again the ridiculous technicalities, but she is clearly an asset to this country; she works hard and pays tax (and by the way she eats healthily and keeps herself fit). Her assistant is a Polish girl who is similarly brilliant. The (British) chefs are routinely late or absent or inept. If If I had to expel anyone from Britain, I know who it would be.
I know plenty of white British born and raised who are lazy and/or fraudulent in their approach to work.
Anecdotal "I know such-and-such" stories are a waste of time because we all know people, and if you think about it you probably know more hard-working foreigners and lazy British than you realise.
It's just nonsense really; that's the thing. All of the arguments the BNP can make are just nonsense when you take the time to interrogate them. It's just that none of our mainstream politicians ever do because they're shit-scared.
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tomu
Sexpert
Well, this has already been talked out so I'll just add my vote on the bottom (since I don't seem to be able to vote in the poll any more).
I'll never vote BNP (no surprise to anyone who's read any of my posts elsewhere!), firstly. I don't agree with the "No Platform" thing - I think we should be able to take them on in a debate and win, because basically they're wrong and their arguments generally rely on misrepresentation of statistics and faulty logic. But I do despair a little, because the number of people who can't recognise faulty logic when they see it is often disappointingly large. The entire readership of the Daily Mail, for instance. But I'll come back to that.
1.
Quote by couplemids2003
Look at all of the recent acts of terrorism against Western countries and then look at the clues;
a. Do they look British?
b. Do they speak English?
c. Can you prounounce their name?

a) well, the Irish and the Basques have already been mentioned. Timothy McVeigh (Oklahoma City bomber) looked pretty American too, I'd say.
b. yes, and with a Yorkshire accent - the ones responsible for the London bombings that is, mostly born and raised in Leeds. Fucking Yorkies.
c. you mean like, Richard Reid? (But actually, putting aside the fact that the answers aren't what you were hoping, even just this question shows you up. Are you seriously saying you have difficulty pronouncing names like Muktar Said Ibrahim, or Yasin Hassan Omar (London tube bombers, the first two names on the list)? How stupid are you then? Can't you read or something? It's not fucking difficult. Christ. Going to the football or eating Italian food must be a nightmare for you. Taglia.... errmmm bolog.... nope, I'll just have the garlic bread.)
Aaaanyway. The key point, before I got onto general illiteracy amongst the racist, was that not all terrorists are Muslim, and indeed not all Muslims are terrorists.
2
I actually don't see the problem with immigration. I really don't. Bearing in mind that the natural counterpart of immigration is emigration, and I'm bang up for my right to go an live in Germany for a bit, or Australia for a bit, or wherever else (a) I fancy and (b) I get a good job.
I don't really believe that an increasing immigrant population will represent a significant burden on our economy, not when the vast majority of them find professional/managerial level work (30% of the net immigration during the 90s*) or are students (37%), with the non-EU ones paying massive tuition fees into our education system. I see more of a problem with us drowning under a sea of grannies, to be honest. As the white, and overall, population ages due to falling birthrates and rising life expectancies, who on earth is going to pay your pension? Your kids? Erm no, you haven't had any. Again, step forward the immigrants - predominantly young, predominantly with a higher birthrate. If I was being Devil's advocate, I'd say illegal immigrants are even better - anyone with enough motivation to cross continents in the undercarriage of lorries is surely not going to suddenly sit around on the dole claiming incapacity benefit and watching Jeremy Kyle. In fact, when have you ever seen a Somalian refugee in Tescos in their pyjamas? These are people who will go out and work fucking hard, and if we let them will pay taxes too.
3
But there's so much innaccuracy and scaremongering going around on this. The biggest problem is the the politicians haven't got the balls to actually stand up and do the argument in favour, so all we ever hear is the argument against. That article from the Daily Mail quoted above, about the draft document on migration - the thing is:
A. it's an unpublished draft. In other words, someone decided it was wrong and threw it in the bin. To say it's what they've been thinking all along is simply false. I made a shopping list the other day with chorizo on it. I threw it in the bin, and made another with salami instead. I didn't buy chorizo, I bought salami, and that was because I decided I didn't want chorizo.
But, also,
B. It's talking about migration. It's saying migration is potentially a good thing. I agree with this. Migration includes many things. It's not only about the dirty Muslims bringing their baby making slaves to Dagenham. It's also about British old folk going to live out their days on the Costa Del Sol, and German students studying in a University in Durham, and French footballers going to play in Serie A. And Australian teenagers coming to work in all the bars in London. Migration. There are many different kinds. It doesn't all have to be scary.
But, also,
C. It's saying that immigrants enrich our society. Which they do. (i) by bringing cash money and in extreme cases buying football clubs**; (ii) by bringing skills and a strong work ethic; (iii) by bringing cultural products. The food in this country is waaaay better now than it was 20 years ago, and I attribute this almost entirely to immigration. Most current forms of popular music, from hip hop to drum and bass to (obviously) bhangra to R&B are heavily influenced and often driven by immigrant communities, and music is one of the few things we still export for big bucks £££. I could go on, but you've stopped reading this anyway.
But also, and above all,
4
Not all Muslims are terrorists. Not even most of them. Hardly any of them in fact. They just look different and have a different religion and speak another language. In the same way you're saying not all BNP voters are racist narrowminded thugs. I'm sure they're not.
For fuck's sake. Broaden your horizons. It's a big world we live in now. Embrace that rather than trying to pretend it isn't happening.
* table 4, p6
**although this is not necessarily a good example.
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tomu
Sexpert
Oh, maybe I should have said somewhere - this was a two-year-old thread that I revived after I came across it looking through some of my old posts. So the links, and the court case and all that were two years ago when she first made the comments.
My initial response when the adultery and the allegations of fraud came out, was one of delight at her misfortune. As things unravelled to such a catastrophic extent I did start to feel a little ashamed of that, and a little tiny bit sorry for her. But, when I remind myself of the monumental bigotry of this woman and her apparent belief that she could get away with whatever she liked, only a little bit sorry.
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by winchwench, 2008
I believe this to be the same dozy bint I heard interviewed on the radio the other day on a different issue. If it is, she can't hold her own in an argument and isn't half as clever as she thinks she is. So give her enough rope, and hopefully right will prevail wink

Mildly distasteful but...
I can't be alone in having felt a little, erm, Schadenfreude, about the eventual downfall of Iris? Although I didn't expect it to go quite so catastrophically.
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by noladreams
Thing is, it all went a bit tits up and other things got in the way of his being able to give it a go. I'm now left in a position where I know what I want, but I actually now despair of ever finding it even more than I ever did before.

This is a shame :therethere:
Quote by noladreams
The combination of being both sexually and emotionally compatible* was a first for me and it's that which I doubt I'll find again and, I'm now unsure which I'd be prepared to compromise on.
Life sure isn't perfect, at least not in Nolaville.

Yes, I totally agree.
But you have to keep hoping, because if you lose hope, what's the point in carrying on?
And, even though you'll inevitably fall back to earth, the moment when both your feet are off the ground makes the attempt to fly worthwhile.
*As well as compatible along a million other axes
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by
Just make sure it is not Henry's VIII four poster. None of his women considered it mundane.

But Henry's four poster was far from mundane. It was about the size of Wiltshire and contained rollercoasters and a videogame arcade.
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by Kaznkev

I want love, as seen on TV, dammit. I just want other people to wind up in my bed from time to time. Ideally without cheating.

But more importantly if you truly love someone AND they love you , you will be sexually compatable, not that im saying everyday ,all day,but there will be no need to hide or pretend,as you will find sex a thing you share simulare views on
Well - sometimes I wonder. I've felt sexually compatible with a few people, and I've loved one or two too. But it doesn't seem to have always lined up.
I guess life isn't perfect. I suppose you have to pick the things that really matter, and then figure out what you're prepared to compromise on.
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by Nimbus
currently sat here getting ready for a vanilla date n wondering if i'm wasting my time.
ok within the swinging scene i'm not meeting atm due to the fact i'm not sure how i stand being here as a single fem (privately) I joined as a cpl n enjoyed meets as a cpl n not sure if now as a single fem i can swing anyway aside from that ... can you really move onto vanilla relationships after experiencing swinging, atm i'm not too sure wether i can n that maybe i just need to find a partner who shares the same interests ie within the swinging community.
advice from other single fems greatly appreciated

Whiplash, I joined SH as a single, or perhaps that should be as one half of a friendship that fucked. Ultimately I entered into a vanilla relationship with someone else. The new man knew about me "past" but asked me to put it behind me. All very well until his curiosity got the better of him and he entered into the scene w/out my knowledge...
The resulting break up and I don't feel his and my relationship was openly honest enough for us to survive.
Now, I am back on SH as a single, and have learned: Vanilla or swinging, you both have to want the same things and have total trust and honesty with each other.
I'm in a vanilla relationship now. She knows all about my past and is very uncomfortable about it. There's a bit of a Chasing Amy thing about it in fact - she worries that she won't ever be enough for me, because she can't/won't do certain things that I've done in the past.
I doubt that it'll go the same way as your situation above, Nimbus - I don't think she's going to have a go herself. I also think it was the right thing to tell her about my past, as generally I approve of honesty in a relationship. Saying that, she doesn't know I'm writing on this forum now...
I've tried to reassure her that I don't mind that she's not up for swinging at all, and that I'm happy to never go back to it, but I don't think she buys that. Partly, probably, because it's not true. I did enjoy it. Many of my most intense sexual experiences come from that period. Many of my sexual fantasies involve multiple people, or my partner fucking other men, and so forth. That's what turns me on the most. The variety made it more interesting.
It's not the only thing I want in life though. If I'm honest, outside the (sigh: sorry, slap me for being pretentious here, but this is the only way I can express it) larger narrative of an ongoing relationship, the individual episodes seemed a little light, or lacking in meaning. And really, I do want at some point to settle down have kids buy a house and all that. I want love, as seen on TV, dammit. I just want other people to wind up in my bed from time to time. Ideally without cheating.
Your original question:
Quote by whiplash
can you really move onto vanilla relationships after experiencing swinging

is hard to answer from my current perspective. I suppose there are several possible outcomes:
a) If you tell them and they're not into it, they can feel insecure
b) If you don't tell them, you're hiding something quite important to who you are
c) In either of the above worlds, do you just get over it, give it up, never go back to it?
d) or, you restrict your choice of partner to people who are going to be OK with swinging.
e) in the perfect world, of course, they're up for it too.
If you luck out with (e), or can find someone you like under (d), then you're in the best of all worlds I guess. Otherwise, I don't know what the answer is, really.
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tomu
Sexpert
I'm generally on reasonable terms with a lot of the people whose paths I've crossed, when I actually re-cross their paths. From my own perspective there is a very small and distinct category of people with whom I actively want no further contact. But I'm generally quite lame at keeping in touch, even with some of my closest friends; and indeed my mum wishes I'd call her much more than I do. A lot of my long-lasting friendships persist because the other person has made all the legwork, and I am quite ashamed about that. It's not that I don't love or value the people I never call or text; it's just that I hate calling and texting. (Read also email, facebook, and I won't even go near twitter). Usually when I finally lost contact with someone, I do so with a sense of shame and guilt at not keeping in touch better.
Swing partners are a different category though, as there's quite a clear reason for this connection to evaporate; when I stopped being a couple I immediately lost all the people who were interested in us as a couple; when I went into another relationship, with someone who is very uncomfortable with the idea of swinging (all the more so because she knows all about my past in it), I lost touch with the rest.
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by Kaznkev
on the subject of films as goods or better than the book..
i can only think of the godfather.
a book im intrigued how it can be made (i mean made well...), life of pi

Are they seriously planning that, the whole thing is a hallucination? :confused2:
Oh Jesus, you could have at least put *spoiler* above that :-p
(I'd managed to forget how the book ends...)
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by kentswingers777
Lord of the Rings.
How anyone can imagine such in depth thoughts and fantasy, shows this authors pure genius.
The films were even more breathtaking.

Finally found something I agree with Kentswingers about! And I agree about the films too, actually - a rare example of the film being as good as the book.
Quote by brucie
I can highly recommend never picking up the BS7671:2001 17th edition IEE Electrical Regulations unless you really have to or someone has a gun to your head :shock:

you joke but i had to read AND UNDERSTAND the WEEE Directives recently
(clue: nothing to do with golden showers. waste electrical something or other)
You might try BSI BS 6008:Preparation of a Liquor of Tea though - I use it on a regular basis.
Quote by Gufuncouple
War and Peace

Probably my favourite book. And actually, apart from the sheer size of it, it's not as hard to read as you'd think.
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
did I mention extremely loud and incredibly close by Jonathan Safran Foer ...do not read on the bus...I did and looked an absolute fool weeping on the back seat

Haven't read that, but I liked Everything is Illuminated a lot.
Quote by Ms_Whips
as a child enid blyton books are the ones that stuck with me.

Yeah, it was Enid that stated me reading books. God bless her, th'auld racist.
Quote by Dave_Desert229

I like Pratchett, but if I had the choice, I'd have to pick the 'master of far-fetched fiction', Robert Rankin. His books have reduced me to tears of laughter on numerous occasions. The Hollow Chocolate Bunnies Of The Apocalypse and The Toyminator (murder mysteries set in Toy City) are brilliant.

Yes! Pratchett and Rankin are both ace. My favourite Rankin was always The Book of Ultimate Truths though. And the original Brentford Trilogy.
And then:
The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language, by David Crystal - who'd have thought an encyclopaedia could be so interesting? But is was, enough so to make me change which degree courses I was applying to, to Linguistics, after I already had offers for Law. If you're asking about life-changing books...
The Unbearable Lightness of Being by Milan Kundera - Got me back into reading recreationally after I finished university.
A Wild Sheep Chase and Norwegian Wood by Haruki Murukami - my favourite current novelist.
House of Leaves by Mark Z Danielewski - got all the tricks you can think of in terms of layout and structure, but actually it's a really good horror/thriller novel too.
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by Kaznkev

Wow tomu thanks for that , what a voice, i never realised shed been in a film,

sung by big mama this is just , ohh fab and so sexy

I love Big Mama Thornton; the link didn't work I'm afraid :-(
just for you , hope it does this time,

Thanks! That's awesome, she really is incredible. She has a voice like a chainsaw! I love her version of Hound Dog too: (although the record version is better than any of the live ones I could find).
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by Kaznkev
Wow tomu thanks for that , what a voice, i never realised shed been in a film,

sung by big mama this is just , ohh fab and so sexy

I love Big Mama Thornton; the link didn't work I'm afraid :-(
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by Kaznkev
Probably not what you meant but i cant listen to this without shivering

her voice and the words, unforgettable

Yeah and this - - the only film I've ever seen of Bessie Smith. It's a thing and a half.
Quote by Staggerlee_BB

Funny enough I was going to post the original - west side story somewhere. Myself, although it's not really the sort of thing one can admit, I'm not a big fan of Tom Waits... it always seems to be too much about him being Tom Waits...
Quote by Lost

That's a magnificent organ you've got there (well somebody had to).
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tomu
Sexpert
Hello,
Well, as a few people have said - we're just massively on the wrong end of the numbers. It probably will be that way on every swinging site you ever go on.
If I'm honest, I always found it immensely difficult to meet people, or even to get replies. That's just the way it is. In all probability you'll find it extremely difficult. I have met a few people though. One of the best people I've met off any site came as a result of getting involved in random conversations on this site - I think if people get to see enough of your personality to decide they like it, it kind of shortcuts the process a lot. You have an advantage over many in that you can obviously write and think. This is good. As one straight man to another, you're also decent looking (for myself I would feel reserved about putting my face pic on my public profile, but good luck to you).
Having been on the other end of the numbers (I was, for one glorious year in the sun, on here as part of a couple, with, although it pains me to admit it, a very hot ex) - it's surprisingly actually not that much easier to meet the people you're looking for. Here's how it goes from the other end: you put up an ad for single guys and within days you've received maybe a hundred replies; you then spend a couple of days sifting through those and the 50 more you get during the time it takes you to go through the first hundred, dismissing anyone who looks like a psycho or who has only posted a cock shot or who lives too far away* or who the lady knows she won't feel attracted to. Whittle it down to twenty or so, about half of whom will rule themselves out by either not replying to your reply or making some kind of nonsense response. You'll arrange meets with maybe ten guys, over a few weeks; three of them will cancel or not turn up, or try to reschedule, which is difficult, because your social schedule is pretty full now trying to meet all the guys who are still positives. You'll have three meets. You'll probably decide you're not attracted to one guy, and one guy seems a bit weird, like he might be a serial killer or something, and you don't feel that good inviting him into your house to fuck your girlfriend, anyway. So you'll end up meeting the one guy who had decent pictures of himself, you came across like a decent human being, who turned up when he said he was going to and looked like his pictures when he did. And you'll probably have fun, woohoo!
That's the way it worked - out of about two or three hundred replies we got over the course of a year, we actually met and fucked one single guy (and probably two or three couples, and people we met at swinging clubs). For quite a large amount of effort. Yeah - there were a couple of occasions where we went through that whole cycle and then at the end of it it didn't work out at all. Which gets a bit disheartening.
So when playing as a single guy (I'm not playing, currently), you have to be aware that anyone you're writing to is getting a hundred emails, mainly from twats. You have to make sure you get onto the shortlist, then you're in with a chance.
I would say (as someone else did) remove anything from your profile that looks like a whinge. Yes the numbers are against you - they always will be, and in all honesty you probably knew that would be the case before you paid your money. So get over it and get stuck in. There will probably be a munch in your area within about six months, although to be honest if it's a shag your looking for (this being a swinging site and all) that's not exactly the holy grail. I would also reduce the length of your profile by about half. I reckon most people won't read that much, and you don't need to say that much anyway.
And then write to more people. Reply to ads, ones that seem applicable of course. Don't be shy.
Good luck!
T
*even if they say they're willing to drive a long way to meet you, you don't really want them to because there's always a good chance than in person, you just won't be that attracted, which wouldn't be fair on them. We actually tried to keep a London list, so that if we went down for a weekend we could try to meet one or more of the guys who'd replied from there. Didn't work.
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tomu
Sexpert
What I don't get about any of this is that... the reason we're having this discussion is that an error was found in a study done at the University of East Anglia. One piece of research, by one group of researchers, in one university. Doesn't mean the whole thing's bullshit, does it? I mean... it's the University of East Anglia for Christ's sake! They're going to fuck up from time to time.
If Oxford, Cambridge, Yale and Harvard, and all the rest, produced good solid science that said driving your cars as much as you like is fine, and one study at UEA said "Hang on a minute, global warming!", would you park up and walk?
Besides which, the pointing out of errors is integral to the way academic knowledge is developed. "You're wrong about that!"; "Oh yeah, let's have another look..." It doesn't mean the whole theory is buggered.
I'd have to ask, why do you WANT global warming to be wrong? Could it be because you don't want to have to change your life? Don't want to cycle to work or bother recycling your rubbish? You don't like the idea that your actions are fucking up the world for your children? Does that make you feel a little bit guilty? Would you rather it was all a big mistake?
Surely, even putting aside all the findings of the world's universities apart from UEA, it just makes sense that if we are spewing shit out into the atmosphere, that can't be good? I mean. When I go to London for a few days my snot goes black. That can't be good. Seriously, it just can't be good.
Surely, irrespective of how you massage your figures, it just makes sense that we should try to conserve what we've got? Think of it as being like your body. You've only got one. You should try not to pump it full of toxins. That would be like... smoking continuously and then wondering why you get sick.
You know for a long time the tobacco industry said smoking wasn't bad for you, and a lot of people believed it.
Quote by kentswingers777

I cannot remember them saying this five years ago, or come to think of it, less than five years.

Erm. The article is from 2006, which is four years ago. And I can remember hearing about it when I was in high school, 15 years ago or so...
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by leprechaun
a word bounded around and yet for all the talk of it
i can't see a successful example to put fore ward as a blue print to build upon

Depends what you mean by successful really, doesn't it? China's not doing to badly on the world stage in many respects. And you could say that Russia was pretty much a third world country before the revolution, so although most people were considerably poorer under communism than many in the west... they were coming from a very low base. Same thing with Cuba, which has done fairly well economically given the sanctions against it, and the fact that it was really no better off than most other Caribbean countries to start with. Not the greatest human rights records in any of the above, admittedly.
Sweden, Holland, France, and to some extent Germany come to mind... socialised democracies but a lot closer to the idea of socialism than much of the world, and very well-functioning states with a good standard of living and personal freedom. In fact we've had a good stab at it as well. I'd say (and have said on a fairly regular basis) that for all its flaws the NHS is our pyramids... one of the towering achievements of the human species. Not perfect, but still closer to its ideal than has almost ever been achieved by almost anyone.
Quote by leprechaun
how could they effectively initiate it from the model we live with now and more importantly maintain it

For me the way to do it would be to look at what has worked successfully in other countries and cherrypick.
In the European countries I mentioned above, there tend to be higher levels of taxation, especially income tax and VAT. People then get this back in terms of better health and education services as well as general infrastructure, business grants, and cultural funding. And in fact, since house prices and consumer goods tend to cost more in this country than a lot of other places, despite giving more away in tax, people end up with the same number of plasma TVs. Funny that.
On the other hand, one reason that China is currently taking the rest of the world to the cleaners economically is that they are doing capitalism in a socialist way... Chinese businesses get far more state support than western ones do; for instance, all copper in the world has been bought by the Chinese government and then fed out to their companies because they knew it would give them a commercial benefit.
They're also not shy about state-owned businesses. I think the idea is, if something can be profitable, why not let the state take the profit, rather than shareholders (and in the case of British privatised utilities, foreign shareholders at that). People have the idea that governments can't run businesses, but I'd say HSBC doesn't do badly (the Hong Kong Banking Corporation is 60% owned by the Chines government).
So I'd say higher taxes and more government involvement with business.
Quote by leprechaun
how will the upper classes and intellectuals react and fit in. how will the socially excluded be brought in and contribute what about the free thinkers,radicals, the travellers, free spirits, the artists and what of the emigrants

Well, the upper classes are the big losers in all of this since its their wealth that gets redistributed. I have relatively little sympathy for them to be honest. There's a difference between people who have done very well for themselves, and people who inherit massive piles of money and do nothing with their lives other than live off this money. Bollocks to them. Funny how the aforementioned Daily Mail doesn't mind rich people who loaf around their entire lives and keep all their money in tax havens, robbing the state of far more money than all the single mums and unemployed people in the country put together. Maybe because it's owned by one of them?
Now, people who have done well for themselves, great. There's a strong case that people need motivation to achieve, and that a society needs to hang on to its high achievers. This I guess is where your social democracies come in. Redistribute some of the wealth, but let people keep some of it, and make sure that the payoffs are worth it.
You don't have to worry about the intellectuals, they love a bit of it - from an intellectual standpoint they can see how it's a fairer system as it allows everybody a more equal opportunity to advance themselves, besides which they've all just got jobs in the newly expanded Universities. Free thinkers and radicals will probably be happy enough since they tend to come from more marginalised social groups. The travellers can be left to their own devices; the artists will be loving your enhanced state funding for art; and the emigrants, if they like it, can come home; if they don't they can stay wherever they've gone to. Result!
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by Max777
the british and americans have frequently used false flag attacks as a means to carry out predatory wars. the military technique is as old as time. recently, gulf of tonkin incident-justification for the wholesale invasion of vietnam after the defeat of the french at dien ben foo. attack by the israelis on the uss liberty to blame the egyptians to justify military aid to israel.
the bottom line of operation northwoods, in 1962, was to fake terrorist attacks including blowing up commercial airplanes full of u.s. citizens and blame iraq, sorry, i mean cuba, to justify an american invasion of afghanistan, sorry, i meant cuba. AL QUEADA IN ARABIC MEANS DATA BASE. thats data base of the nujahadeen fighting the soviets in afghanistan led by OSAMA BIN LINER.
osama bin laden, that never ageing geezer who now claims responsibility for his martyr from nigeria in "his" latest video, "the underpants bomber" who boarded the detroit bound plane from schipol airport where body scanners were already in use, without a passport and claims westernised women bombers are being trained in the new "al quaeder hot spot" of yemen which the americans are now bombing with drones.
something tells me here, as everything above is in the public domain, that if you join the dots from 9/11, the death of dr. david kelly, the madrid train bombings, the 7/7 london bombings, charles de menzies, the mumbai attack, the shoe bomber, the underpants bomber and now the heightened alert of the potential bra bombers, something of the level of 9/11 is in the offing. with people waking up rapidly to such scams as global warming and carbon tax, swine flu and big pharma, bonuses for failed bankers and bullshit propaganda about green shoots, the heightened awareness of people will set back the plans of the next devastating war/invasion.
thank you blue for bringing this up as if i had done it, certain people on here would say its only conspiracy theory.

:sleeping:
I joined the dots, is it a giraffe?
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tomu
Sexpert
I'm on the other end of this. In real life I look fantastic.
T
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tomu
Sexpert
This sounds like a seriously sexy thing. I watched the video... it's cool. (I always imagined the big room at Chameleons to be a bit like that, but darker, and cavernous, and not as oily...)
Oh yeah - make sure you get the heating turned up though,
Quote by Missy
What a fab theme for a Pussy Posse meet! :twisted:

Sounds perfect for a Pussy Posse meet rotflmao
It's all women so far, me, Witchy (in her swimming hat lol ), Corrie, Voddy (with duck tape over her mouth :lol: ), Couplefunuk skating in (we'll shove you in the room so you don't skate straight past :lol: ), Sassy and Mrs-bmw.
Not many guys as yet - I'll grab someone who's easily led and get them oiled up :happy:
Oh Chooon wave quick word over here a min :twisted:
Ah, the Pussy Posse... shady lady-mafia of the SH all-stars.
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tomu
Sexpert
Christ, that was swift. Hello you too, keeping well? :-)
Not so much reliably predictable as, you have good taste. Generally.
T
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by noladreams
1. Prince
2. Me
:thumbup:

3. Oscar Wilde (or Stephen Fry wink)

When i saw this thread, I thought "Wonder how many people say Stephen Fry?" and "I bet Nola says Prince" :-)
Quote by Lost

God - to answer all those niggly little questions such as - Duckbilled Platypussies...Why and other questions.

Well - his mere turning up would answer one particular question. I'd invite Stephen Dawkins as well though, the look on his face would be awesome.
1. Stephen Fry
2. Bobby Robson
3. Bill Drummond
4. Germaine Greer
5. Kirsten Dunst (This seat would previously have gone to Claire Danes, but I hear she's a bit of a dickhead)
6. Isabelle Adjani (have you ever seen La Reine Margot? Sacre bleu!)
Then next week, I'd say Joel-or-Ethan Coen; Freddie Mercury, Dara O'Briain and my mate Ewan, because they remind me of each other massively, Lucy Porter, Sasha Grey... and maybe George Clooney if someone drops out. I have the feeling he'd have something to say for himself. Aaaand Christina Aguilera.
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tomu
Sexpert
When my balls are still aching the next day? (They do that if I've come maybe three or four times, or sometimes just once, really really hard)
When I've fucked all I can fuck and then a couple of hours later I still want more? Like with roast dinners and going for a run, if it's been good you know you should have had enough but it was so good you want to do it all over again.
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by cdangel
Anything by Enigma or good ambient gets me in the mood every time :twisted:

Same! Although it has to be stuff like Enigma, rather than 'boards of canada' which is just creepy...
Quote by cliper
closer by nine inch nails

Yeah... although if you really want to fuck the shit out of someone, some really hard drum and bass, like Venetian Snares...
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tomu
Sexpert
Quote by fluff_n_stuff
I'm
Good at pub quizzes too Nola. Random bits of information just lodge themselves in my head and I can't get rid of them.

But do you, like myself, find that space is then too full for more useful stuff to fit in as a consequence? rolleyes
Definitely. Or, the filing system in my head is about as organised as the one on my desk.
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tomu
Sexpert
The word "fancy", which is such a crap word, has to cover so much ground - from "consider attractive in a kind of vague way" to "want to marry", via "electric shocks when they touch me".
I've fucked people I wasn't physically attracted to, I've fucked people I don't like as human beings, I've fucked people I don't have any intention of seeing again. In a lot of these situations I had fantastic sex. Sometimes actually it adds a kink for me - it underlines that I'm doing it just for the sex, it makes it dirtier. If I'm honest though it sometimes makes me feel a bit washed-up afterwards. And (especially if I really do like the person involved) that in itself makes me feel guilty. The result of years of study is that, I found that for me it really is better if I find the person physically and psychologically attractive and nice as a person. Something I could have learned from watching more American TV in the first place.
Although - I've also fucked people in situations where in an abstract way I can see that she's really hot, and I really like her, and I really want her in my life - but there's absolutely no zip and sizzle (if you see what I mean). That's quite a hard one to deal with. Because I do like a bit of zip and sizzle. And that's what takes me back to the dirt.
I think I think about things too much.
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