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sick benefit crackdown

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Today is start of the incapacity benefit review

my own views are mixed, i welcome the end of the gravy train for some. But i am also a little concerned that some may be assessed unfairly
With 30% of those tested in a pilot scheme declared fit for work, it seems it is justified
Provided the system provides for an adequate appeals procedure, I can't see a problem.
It may be of course, that - as has been found elsewhere - a number of current claimants disappear into the abyss rather than face the shame of being "found out".
Those with genuine disability should have nothing to fear from this.
I think they also need to look at it more on the basis of what are you able to do and not do as opposed to being fit for work or not and then setting goals, finding training and maybe even getting some companies to provide some jobs here instead of overseas (using a little pressure with corporation tax, giving companies well thought out tax breaks in place of them wriggling out of paying it).
I know several people with disabilites and its annoying to see one that is clearly not capable of even surviving on their own, struggling for the basic provisions, while another one who claims to be unable to work seems to claim enough benefit for a good house, food and bills, a serious smoking habit, new mobile phones,trips to bingo and much more. She must spend about 12-18 hours a day on facebook, typing and commenting on every little thing and producing reams of text every day. If she's able to spend so much time on facebook etc, typing, then she obviously has the capability for something like data input work- it can even be done at home. Weed out the ones taking the piss, make job searching a full time job in itself then the work option might look a bit more appealing when its offered.
And the last part of your post is the crux of the matter, make it worthwhile working.
Most people recieving any form of benefit cannot afford to work, they would lose more of thier income than a salary would provide and until someone can come up with a workable solution to that we will continue to encourage people to take the higher income ie benefits.
Quote by MidsCouple24
And the last part of your post is the crux of the matter, make it worthwhile working.
Most people recieving any form of benefit cannot afford to work, they would lose more of thier income than a salary would provide and until someone can come up with a workable solution to that we will continue to encourage people to take the higher income ie benefits.

thats where the physical and mental assessment, provision of training and then provision of a job they can do comes in. the option being do the job or loose your benefits. claiming that work pays less than benefits can't be an excuse really- cutting down on non essentials such as Sky, fags, holidays, the latest phone, new telly should make up the balance- i'm self employed and don't have any of those as work is only just starting to pick back up. people have to live to a budget and other than food, water, basic health provision and basic housing, nothing else is really essential.
Quote by MidsCouple24
And the last part of your post is the crux of the matter, make it worthwhile working.
Most people recieving any form of benefit cannot afford to work, they would lose more of thier income than a salary would provide and until someone can come up with a workable solution to that we will continue to encourage people to take the higher income ie benefits.

and that is the culture that neads to be broken for many peeple.
i hope that it does indeed find the non genuine clamants out and send them out to work and i mean any work. the reel peeple claiming should then get a higher rate.
this has been a lo0ng time cuming and i hope it does not affect the needy ones out there.
Quote by meat2pleaseu
I think they also need to look at it more on the basis of what are you able to do and not do as opposed to being fit for work or not and then setting goals, finding training and maybe even getting some companies to provide some jobs here instead of overseas (using a little pressure with corporation tax, giving companies well thought out tax breaks in place of them wriggling out of paying it).
I know several people with disabilites and its annoying to see one that is clearly not capable of even surviving on their own, struggling for the basic provisions, while another one who claims to be unable to work seems to claim enough benefit for a good house, food and bills, a serious smoking habit, new mobile phones,trips to bingo and much more. She must spend about 12-18 hours a day on facebook, typing and commenting on every little thing and producing reams of text every day. If she's able to spend so much time on facebook etc, typing, then she obviously has the capability for something like data input work- it can even be done at home. Weed out the ones taking the piss, make job searching a full time job in itself then the work option might look a bit more appealing when its offered.

should she come under investigation then all this would come out into the open
access to ip information, electronic means testing etc etc is now the new preferred primary investigation route for the dwp fraud team
i imagine it could be quite embarrassing for some wink
I have rarely read such ignorant ill informed twaddle.
good contribution ben :doh:
care to share your expert experience with this and enlighten us
and i think you know I'm better informed on this than most wink
Quote by Lizaleanrob
good contribution ben :doh:
care to share your expert experience with this and enlighten us
and i think you know I'm better informed on this than most wink

perhaps someone stopped swinging the lead and the ship has run aground - again :smoke:
Quote by flower411
I have rarely read such ignorant ill informed twaddle.

Just type and send then, you might end up with some spelling mistakes but at least you don`t have to read it ! :giggle:
Maybe it was this quote from Meaty which touched a raw nerve... dunno
Quote by meaty
while another one who claims to be unable to work seems to claim enough benefit for a good house, food and bills, a serious smoking habit, new mobile phones,trips to bingo and much more. She must spend about 12-18 hours a day on facebook, typing and commenting on every little thing and producing reams of text every day. If she's able to spend so much time on facebook etc, typing, then she obviously has the capability for something like data input work- it can even be done at home.
Here we go again eh.
Quote by Ben
Here we go again eh.

My thoughts exactly!
You do bring it on yourself Ben for making such inane comments to be honest. If you have something to say, say it! We might not agree, but at least we will understand where you are coming from on an issue such as this instead of leaving yourself isolated.
Substantiate what you say and we can then hopefully make some sort of sense of it but as matters presently stand, every right thinking person thinks that there are too many lead swingers out there who need not be on incapacity benefits sponging off the rest of society.
That view is being increasingly supported by the well regarded support organisations who believe that the benefits system is being hijacked by those who can work, but won't.
Everyone has their worth to society. Not being able to find work is a different issue altogether to those who feign illness or disability in order to claim off the State.
It's about time the Government weeded out these little weasels and made them contribute to the benefit of those who really are deserving.
At £30 billion per year, fraud in the UK is more than twice as high as thought, with tax evasion costing the public purse over £15 billion per year and benefit fraud just over £1 billion.
Makes a person wonder if they are chasing the real criminals.
Quote by robbo-bi1
At £30 billion per year, fraud in the UK is more than twice as high as thought, with tax evasion costing the public purse over £15 billion per year and benefit fraud just over £1 billion.
Makes a person wonder if they are chasing the real criminals.

Some argue that by getting the benefit fraudsters at the bottom of the pile, you also mop up quite a bit of the tax evasion people in the same hit as there seems to be some correlation between the two types of fraudster - in a number of cases, it's the same person!
Quote by GnV
At £30 billion per year, fraud in the UK is more than twice as high as thought, with tax evasion costing the public purse over £15 billion per year and benefit fraud just over £1 billion.
Makes a person wonder if they are chasing the real criminals.

Some argue that by getting the benefit fraudsters at the bottom of the pile, you also mop up quite a bit of the tax evasion people in the same hit as there seems to be some correlation between the two types of fraudster - in a number of cases, it's the same person!
You mean people on sickness benefit, are also avoiding billions in income tax as well wink
I know tax avoidance isnt a crime, but then neither is being "SICK"
It's one thing identifying that X person on DLA could work - it is entirely another thing that person being offered an interview let alone a job. It's hard enough to get a job, it's ten times harder if you exhibit any form of disability, or have to admit to any on your application.
I can see the emploers' point. Given 2 people with the same education, work history and intellectual capabilities they would surely employ the fully fit one. They are not being a bigot - they would simply employ the person they would get most work from for least cost. Something they have every right to do. Given a limited job pool and loads of people out there looking, it's a buyer's market.
Quote by robbo-bi1
At £30 billion per year, fraud in the UK is more than twice as high as thought, with tax evasion costing the public purse over £15 billion per year and benefit fraud just over £1 billion.
Makes a person wonder if they are chasing the real criminals.

Some argue that by getting the benefit fraudsters at the bottom of the pile, you also mop up quite a bit of the tax evasion people in the same hit as there seems to be some correlation between the two types of fraudster - in a number of cases, it's the same person!
You mean people on sickness benefit, are also avoiding billions in income tax as well wink
I know tax avoidance isn't a crime, but then neither is being "SICK"
Evasion is illegal, avoidance is not. What we are talking about here is people purporting to be incapable of work and claiming a benefit to which they are not entitled. I have no such reservations about those who are genuinely incapable of (any) work and are deserving of being looked after by the State.
And flower, nice of you to put Bankers at the top of the pile. Gulson will be proud of you but I wouldn't be so bold personally; that's the place for those Politicians who fiddled the system, got caught and are now facing the consequences at Her Majesty's pleasure.
Quote by foxylady2209
It's one thing identifying that X person on DLA could work - it is entirely another thing that person being offered an interview let alone a job. It's hard enough to get a job, it's ten times harder if you exhibit any form of disability, or have to admit to any on your application.
I can see the emploers' point. Given 2 people with the same education, work history and intellectual capabilities they would surely employ the fully fit one. They are not being a bigot - they would simply employ the person they would get most work from for least cost. Something they have every right to do. Given a limited job pool and loads of people out there looking, it's a buyer's market.

I'm not so sure foxy. I employed a number of people with disabilities over the years and they gave their all in the work they did. One was registered partially sighted and I needed him to visit customer workplaces to resolve issues. He was brilliant at what he did and the Employment Service even provided him with a driver to get to work and to travel on appointments.
Quote by GnV
Here we go again eh.

My thoughts exactly!
You do bring it on yourself Ben for making such inane comments to be honest. If you have something to say, say it! We might not agree, but at least we will understand where you are coming from on an issue such as this instead of leaving yourself isolated.
Substantiate what you say and we can then hopefully make some sort of sense of it but as matters presently stand, every right thinking person thinks that there are too many lead swingers out there who need not be on incapacity benefits sponging off the rest of society.
That view is being increasingly supported by the well regarded support organisations who believe that the benefits system is being hijacked by those who can work, but won't.
Everyone has their worth to society. Not being able to find work is a different issue altogether to those who feign illness or disability in order to claim off the State.
It's about time the Government weeded out these little weasels and made them contribute to the benefit of those who really are deserving.
every bit of what he said ^^^^^
:thumbup::thumbup:
Quote by Ben_welshminx
Here we go again eh.

OFF TOPIC...........again :silly:
you seem unable to debate this topic so please post else where
Quote by GnV
((snip my stuff, you don't want to read it again))

I'm not so sure foxy. I employed a number of people with disabilities over the years and they gave their all in the work they did. One was registered partially sighted and I needed him to visit customer workplaces to resolve issues. He was brilliant at what he did and the Employment Service even provided him with a driver to get to work and to travel on appointments.
I'm not saying for one second that people with disabilities are any less able to do jobs - but I believe that many/most employers would opt for the fully (or more) able person given an otherwise even choice between 2 people.
I would add that my best mate is severely disabled and has just had to fill out the usual 20+ page DLA form for his condition, which has been fully established by the DLA's medical people as being permanent, degenerative and entirely disabling. And he has to do this every couple of years. It's like an A level - loads of writing not just tick boxes.
He could do some work, nothing physical at all, and at best only a few hours a week. He couldn't guarentee being able to go into work (or even work at home) on any given day and therefre would be a total liability to any employer that has any kind of deadline or customer. He's on so many meds there are days he can't string a coherent sentence together or hold a cup - and that idiot Campbell insists that he has to prove this every couple of years, in spite of the medical people for the DLA having accepted that his condition won't change - ever. Apart from getting worse, so bad it's a toss up whether the spinal nerve damage stops him breathing before the pain drives him to suicide.
Sorry, but while I agree with people being encouraged to work - they have to be 'enabled' to work and actually offered a job. That and the proof of invalidity benefit status is applied stupidly. This whole thing is simply an exercise in cutting cost - NOT in applying the benefit more appropriately.
Quote by Lizaleanrob
Here we go again eh.

OFF TOPIC...........again :silly:
you seem unable to debate this topic so please post else where
i was hopeing for a valid reply from ben but as yet i fail to see anything other than to knock what others think.
peeple argue about tax evasion and rightly so but peeple claiming this benefit saying they cannot work but obviosly can work should be found and have there benefit stopped.
i for one do not think it is ill informed twaddle at all and i have given my reesons as to why peeple should be investigated and if found to be claiming this benefit when not entitled then it should be taken away from them..
according to figures i red somewhere a huge amount of peeple claiming this are not entitled as they are fit for work i think something like 30 peeple out of a hundred.
or i found something that said * First tests of long-term incapacity claimants show two-thirds could work
* Results indicate as many as out of may be fit for a job. not exactly a couple of peeple.
Well said foxy.
Yes, a good response as always foxy.
However, I stand by what I said in earlier posts and in a way defend what the PM is doing. If it wasn't for the shirkers clogging up the system and stealing from the public purse - and as robbo eludes to, there are a significant number - people like your friend wouldn't have suffer the indignity of being continuously dragged through the mill to prove their case.
I simply say again, those who can work but won't and are a burden on the system are at fault here, not the PM and those Ministers of State responsible for righting this terrible wrong. Those who defend the shirkers are as much at fault as those who cause the hurt of those whom the system is intended to protect.
Is that what you were trying to articulate Ben?
Quote by GnV
Yes, a good response as always foxy.
However, I stand by what I said in earlier posts and in a way defend what the PM is doing. If it wasn't for the shirkers clogging up the system and stealing from the public purse - and as robbo eludes to, there are a significant number - people like your friend wouldn't have suffer the indignity of being continuously dragged through the mill to prove their case.
I simply say again, those who can work but won't and are a burden on the system are at fault here, not the PM and those Ministers of State responsible for righting this terrible wrong.
Is that what you were trying to articulate Ben or do you have a separate agenda?

£1 billion worth of shirkers, £30 billion of crooked tax avoiders.
Waiting to hear what the TORY gob shite, is going to do about them.
Was that tumble weed that just blew past wink :wink: :wink:
Quote by robbo-bi1
Yes, a good response as always foxy.
However, I stand by what I said in earlier posts and in a way defend what the PM is doing. If it wasn't for the shirkers clogging up the system and stealing from the public purse - and as robbo eludes to, there are a significant number - people like your friend wouldn't have suffer the indignity of being continuously dragged through the mill to prove their case.
I simply say again, those who can work but won't and are a burden on the system are at fault here, not the PM and those Ministers of State responsible for righting this terrible wrong.
Is that what you were trying to articulate Ben or do you have a separate agenda?

£1 billion worth of shirkers, £30 billion of crooked tax avoiders.
Waiting to hear what the TORY gob shite, is going to do about them.
Was that tumble weed that just blew past wink :wink: :wink:
hopefully not the same as that buffoon brown, who.. if i`m not mistaken paid the bankers bonus`s with tax payers dollars blink
From an earlier thread ( http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/313744.html ) …............
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
As i said look at the vodafone tax settlement and then tell me about government cut backs....


50 million......chicken feed

not good
but i think its a settlement based on how much the final legal bill would cost and could eventually cost the tax payer more money than 50 million if more legal battles were to continue
this isn't the fault of the government. it european law that's an ass and i very much doubt the government is any thing but happy about losing 50 million in an inherited battle that has probably already run into tens of millions
Where do you get 50 million from?? vodafone had put aside 2.2 billion for this...this government settled for bn....I make that just short of 1bn the government has thrown away...why was George Osborne prominently featuring vodafone in his recent trip to India ? (somewhere else vodafone owes a lot of tax to)...why if HMG is happy with bn are tax officials apparently furious at the settlement and the precedent it sets for other cases ?....all sounds like business as usual pile the cuts on those who can least afford and least deserve them use the proceeds to line the pockets of the multinationals to buy some nice big fat directorships....not a Thatcherite?....and my shit smells of roses....evils cunts these modern caring tories
I think this example goes some way to explaining the cynicism of myself and others.......here we have a government who are more than happy to write off 1 billion of unpaid illegally avoided tax in favour of clawing it back from benefits claimants. And Vodaphone are far from alone in their efforts to tread the line between legal and illegal
I have no doubt the majority will be found eligible for the benefits they claim, I have no doubt some will be found to be borderline cases lose their benefits and suffer,I have no doubt many will suffer a great deal of stress and have their conditions exacerbated by this....I have no doubt that many would be found eligible for benefits they do not claim if anyone cared to investigate that (they wont)
This government (they are not the first) are fishing for minnows in order to feed the sharks that they are so afraid of upsetting.
Benefits cheats are smoke and mirrors waved at you to hide the real leeches cheats thieves and scumbags who will take any action to avoid paying their dues to the society they bleed dry...they are the real scum not some bloke down the road who gets fifty quid he shouldn't .And the real joke ?? the real tragedy.....nearly every other poster on this topic thinks the government are being reasonable......absolute fucking joke.....I'd be pissing myself if it wasn't so pathetic
Quote by Lizaleanrob
hopefully not the same as that buffoon brown, who.. if i`m not mistaken paid the bankers bonus`s with tax payers dollars blink

Really Rob ???????????????????????????? were the do you think they got this years bonuses from …......Jeeves and fucking Wooster
Quote by Lizaleanrob
hopefully not the same as that buffoon brown, who.. if i`m not mistaken paid the bankers bonus`s with tax payers dollars blink

Or sold all the Country's gold at rock bottom prices...
Or paid the Pensioners an extra 75p per week on their pensions...
Or nearly threw the UK into a constitutional crisis similar to the Ivory Coast when he refused to leave office...
The list goes on...