Well whatever officials within the education system may say, this high powered business woman surely knows better?
I have said for years that exams are getting easier, what with coursework being allowed as part of your grades or...being allowed to take your GCSE's a year earlier in a lot of cases.
This is a pretty damning statement from an employer who recruits thousands of people.
As an employer we have taken on youngsters, and whilst they never seemed to have a attitude problem, I certainly would not have let any of them write a letter on the companys behalf, or do an invoice as their skills in that department were pretty poor.
It sorts of makes a mockery of the " best exam results ever " brigade.
I deal with a lot of companies who experience exactly what she is saying, and that is why a lot of employers will not take school leavers on, which is sad as a huge percentage are not like this....are they?
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Sounds about right
Sex God
Why shouldn't course work be part of an exam result 
And why is being able to take an exam a year early a bad thing :dunno:
Surely if a pupil is at a stage where they can take an exam a year earlier than intended that speaks volumes for their progress :dunno:
And why is being able to take an exam a year early a bad thing :dunno:
Surely if a pupil is at a stage where they can take an exam a year earlier than intended that speaks volumes for their progress :dunno:
Quote by Steve
Why shouldn't course work be part of an exam result
And why is being able to take an exam a year early a bad thing :dunno:
Surely if a pupil is at a stage where they can take an exam a year earlier than intended that speaks volumes for their progress :dunno:
Firstly course work can be copied either from the internet, or you get ideas from others.
Secondly when a child takes an exam a year earlier and let's say gets a b, then a year later they take it again and say get a c, the b grade is the one they get in their exam results. Also not ALL children are allowed to take that exam a year earlier, in a lot of schools it is the top sect of kids that can take them early, and not the ones further down the academic scale...hardly fair.
I always believed that all kids done the same studying for the exams and then they all sit down in May of their final year, to take the exam....not anymore.
Plus did you know that depending on your childs ability they can opt for an easier paper ( the highest grade you can get is a c ) or...the harder paper where the minimum grade is a c and the highest being an a star.
Another reason why exam grades look great.
Surely the most important things children can learn are to be able to read and write, and to do basic maths?
Read the link again.
I do not blame the kids in a lot of cases, but the whole education system, where they put charts and graphs before reality.
Sats being a typical example.
'More broadly, a society where people don't feel the need to work to gain material possessions will not be a stable or successful society.'
Interesting... but not the point of this thread.
Perhaps Tesco should review their recruitment policy, as they do not seem to be attracting the right people for their vacancies.
Also, I'm happy education standards are slipping, it means I'm almost guaranteed a 1st in my BA!! hahahaha
Interesting... but not the point of this thread.
Perhaps Tesco should review their recruitment policy, as they do not seem to be attracting the right people for their vacancies.
Also, I'm happy education standards are slipping, it means I'm almost guaranteed a 1st in my BA!! hahahaha
Quote by jdwxxx
'More broadly, a society where people don't feel the need to work to gain material possessions will not be a stable or successful society.'
Interesting... but not the point of this thread.
Perhaps Tesco should review their recruitment policy, as they do not seem to be attracting the right people for their vacancies.
Also, I'm happy education standards are slipping, it means I'm almost guaranteed a 1st in my BA!! hahahaha
Now that is true but oh so very funny.
:lol: :lol: Quote by kentswingers777
Well whatever officials within the education system may say, this high powered business woman surely knows better?
I have said for years that exams are getting easier, what with coursework being allowed as part of your grades or...being allowed to take your GCSE's a year earlier in a lot of cases.
This is a pretty damning statement from an employer who recruits thousands of people.
As an employer we have taken on youngsters, and whilst they never seemed to have a attitude problem, I certainly would not have let any of them write a letter on the companys behalf, or do an invoice as their skills in that department were pretty poor.
It sorts of makes a mockery of the " best exam results ever " brigade.
I deal with a lot of companies who experience exactly what she is saying, and that is why a lot of employers will not take school leavers on, which is sad as a huge percentage are not like this....are they?
You should choose your friends more carefully Kenty.
She's a former civil servant who worked for the worst government in the twentieth century (John Major's sleaze ridden collection of non entities) then used her career in the Civil Service as a springboard to a place on the board at Tesco's despite having no real time experience of the world of work. Quality recruitment that by Tesco's. If you're in the business of playing join the dots, can you think of the most famous Tory Party figure to be associated with Tesco's? Anyway, on to your more substantive points.
Kids have always been allowed to take exams a year early. The 'genius kid gets O level maths at 11' story is a staple of local hacks in August.
Coursework is a way of redressing the balance between those kids who're bright but nervous and those who're good at exams, rather than intelligent.
As for Tescos having problems with the kids they recruit, have they tried some traditional recruitment tactics; like paying a decent wage, giving them decent training, motivating them and giving them a reason to believe there's a career for them in Tescos.
Nah, thought not. They like 16 year olds because they don't even have to pay NMW, and they lobbied the government to allow them to use 16 year olds to sell alcohol they can't even drink.
Class company Tescos.
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
snip
Surely the most important things children can learn are to be able to read and write, and to do basic maths?
If that's all you expect of a student at GCSE then the dumbing down of exams is hardly an issue.
For me, it is essential that ALL students in mainstream school and the majority in special schools can do what you say. But that would be a minimum for the majority. They should also be able to reason, research effectively, produce original work, explain their reasoning, and to have advanced in at least a few of the core academic subjects and/or practical (useful rather than arty) subjects. Very little of this is truly tested in the exam environment in a stuffy hall for 3 hours in the heat of June.
Coursework - or better named continuous assessment - does not automatically mean mindless downloads from the internet or work actually done by doting parents. When that happens it is because the work has been poorly thought out and lazilly assessed by the teacher. Course work can (and now often is) done in class, singly or in groups, and can certainly be strictly monitored for plagiarism, downloading and too much outside help.
Surely the most effective education is one that allows the student to flourish in their own learning style while ensuring they come out of the education environment capable of entering specialist learning (Uni etc) or the workplace. And that takes effort, resources and support for the teachers and schools.
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
stuff
So basically what you would like to see is kids made to take the hardest exams regardless of if they are up to the task or not (and this could be due to a shortfall in schooling or simply because they dont have an aptitude for the subject....As does happen.....Not all kids can be great at everything) so that would make the exam results tables more realistic ?
And why is the internet such a bad thing for kids to use
Its another tool and if they can use it proficiently then that has to be a good thing surely :dunno:
Granted some kids will try it on and copy huge chunks of it into their home/course work but often as not it gets spotted and chucked right back at them.....I know my kids tried it in the past and didn't get away with it and now only use it to gather information which they then interpret in their own way....
Many here use the internet as a tool to back up their arguments so why not the kids ??
But Kent, you have said yourself that your own standard of spelling, punctuation, etc is not as good as it should be - and I'm sure that there are many other people our age, who had a so called good "old-fashioned" education who would say the same about themselves - so obviously there were problems with the old system.
Quote by awayman
Well whatever officials within the education system may say, this high powered business woman surely knows better?
I have said for years that exams are getting easier, what with coursework being allowed as part of your grades or...being allowed to take your GCSE's a year earlier in a lot of cases.
This is a pretty damning statement from an employer who recruits thousands of people.
As an employer we have taken on youngsters, and whilst they never seemed to have a attitude problem, I certainly would not have let any of them write a letter on the companys behalf, or do an invoice as their skills in that department were pretty poor.
It sorts of makes a mockery of the " best exam results ever " brigade.
I deal with a lot of companies who experience exactly what she is saying, and that is why a lot of employers will not take school leavers on, which is sad as a huge percentage are not like this....are they?
You should choose your friends more carefully Kenty.
She's a former civil servant who worked for the worst government in the twentieth century (John Major's sleaze ridden collection of non entities) then used her career in the Civil Service as a springboard to a place on the board at Tesco's despite having no real time experience of the world of work. Quality recruitment that by Tesco's. If you're in the business of playing join the dots, can you think of the most famous Tory Party figure to be associated with Tesco's? Anyway, on to your more substantive points.
Kids have always been allowed to take exams a year early. The 'genius kid gets O level maths at 11' story is a staple of local hacks in August.
Coursework is a way of redressing the balance between those kids who're bright but nervous and those who're good at exams, rather than intelligent.
As for Tescos having problems with the kids they recruit, have they tried some traditional recruitment tactics; like paying a decent wage, giving them decent training, motivating them and giving them a reason to believe there's a career for them in Tescos.
Nah, thought not. They like 16 year olds because they don't even have to pay NMW, and they lobbied the government to allow them to use 16 year olds to sell alcohol they can't even drink.
Class company Tescos.
You have shown your opinions many times on here, and I always knew you hated big business.
I think you will find they pay a decent wage already. Or are you saying they employ youngsters and pay them an illegal wage? Which one is it?
I also think you know nothing whatsoever about the training they offer, otherwise you would not make ridiculous unknowledgable claims.
Sometimes you really overdo the amateur dramatics thing.
Or are you now implying another trade you have done?
Prey tell everyone how you know so much about Tesco's recruitment policies and their wage structure. I am intrigued to know or is it another rant against anything successful in business?
Quote by kentswingers777
Well whatever officials within the education system may say, this high powered business woman surely knows better?
I have said for years that exams are getting easier, what with coursework being allowed as part of your grades or...being allowed to take your GCSE's a year earlier in a lot of cases.
This is a pretty damning statement from an employer who recruits thousands of people.
As an employer we have taken on youngsters, and whilst they never seemed to have a attitude problem, I certainly would not have let any of them write a letter on the companys behalf, or do an invoice as their skills in that department were pretty poor.
It sorts of makes a mockery of the " best exam results ever " brigade.
I deal with a lot of companies who experience exactly what she is saying, and that is why a lot of employers will not take school leavers on, which is sad as a huge percentage are not like this....are they?
You should choose your friends more carefully Kenty.
She's a former civil servant who worked for the worst government in the twentieth century (John Major's sleaze ridden collection of non entities) then used her career in the Civil Service as a springboard to a place on the board at Tesco's despite having no real time experience of the world of work. Quality recruitment that by Tesco's. If you're in the business of playing join the dots, can you think of the most famous Tory Party figure to be associated with Tesco's? Anyway, on to your more substantive points.
Kids have always been allowed to take exams a year early. The 'genius kid gets O level maths at 11' story is a staple of local hacks in August.
Coursework is a way of redressing the balance between those kids who're bright but nervous and those who're good at exams, rather than intelligent.
As for Tescos having problems with the kids they recruit, have they tried some traditional recruitment tactics; like paying a decent wage, giving them decent training, motivating them and giving them a reason to believe there's a career for them in Tescos.
Nah, thought not. They like 16 year olds because they don't even have to pay NMW, and they lobbied the government to allow them to use 16 year olds to sell alcohol they can't even drink.
Class company Tescos.
You have shown your opinions many times on here, and I always knew you hated big business.
I think you will find they pay a decent wage already. Or are you saying they employ youngsters and pay them an illegal wage? Which one is it?
I also think you know nothing whatsoever about the training they offer, otherwise you would not make ridiculous unknowledgable claims.
Sometimes you really overdo the amateur dramatics thing.
Or are you now implying another trade you have done?
Prey tell everyone how you know so much about Tesco's recruitment policies and their wage structure. I am intrigued to know or is it another rant against anything successful in business?
well i'd take anything awayman says over the inconsistant bollocks that you sprout on a daily basis...
Sex God
And so the thread (again!) degenerates into a schoolyard points scoring competition.
Can't you lot grow up?
Boring.
<<<<<< Walks away from what otherwise was becoming an interesting discussion on the value of differet kinds of education/assessment.
Can't you lot grow up?
Boring.
<<<<<< Walks away from what otherwise was becoming an interesting discussion on the value of differet kinds of education/assessment.
Am sorry Foxy but I get sick and tired of " snipes " at me all the time.
I start threads here which some do not like and some that is the nature of a forum.
Seems it is always the same people that have nothing constructive to say apart from a dig...on this occasion I am not talking about Awayman. He put together a good counter arguement.
If I had a quid everytime this has happened I would be able to buy myself a new house.
I start threads here which some do not like and some that is the nature of a forum.
Seems it is always the same people that have nothing constructive to say apart from a dig...on this occasion I am not talking about Awayman. He put together a good counter arguement.
If I had a quid everytime this has happened I would be able to buy myself a new house.
Quote by kentswingers777
Am sorry Foxy but I get sick and tired of " snipes " at me all the time.
I start threads here which some do not like and some that is the nature of a forum.
Seems it is always the same people that have nothing constructive to say apart from a dig...on this occasion I am not talking about Awayman. He put together a good counter arguement.
If I had a quid everytime this has happened I would be able to buy myself a new house.
you are inconsistant,inconsistant,inconsistant,there i said it...in one sentence you talk of exams being dumbed down ,then in the next say kids are better off just knowing the basics,why? does their intellect frighten you so much that you need to have them kept down to your level of intelligence...you talk of "so called professionals" as knowing nothing yet you take the word of a "so called professional,with a plumb in the mouth" as gospel...you have selective thinking that is so blinkered.
Quote by kentswingers777
What I meant by the basics is a reasonable level of attainment in the three R's!
We have interviewed youngsters who cannot read or write properly.
How is an employer going to give them a fair chance of work?
Reading is knowledge and knowledge is success....it sort of goes hand in hand.
their reading and writing is not down to the quality or lack of teaching skills...have you ever considered that maybe they just don't want to learn anything and spend the best part of school just bunking off?...and if such kids can't be bothered to learn or go to school,are they really interested in working?
So are you saying we have NO failing schools?
I think you will find there are many.
As I know roughly where you live, check the Offsted report for Bexleyheath school 2007.
The headteacher was sacked and the teachers were vilified in their report.
I think I have said this before on here.
The school had a new headteacher in who has turned the school around but a whole five years of pupils education was wasted by a school that Offsted said was " miserably failings it's pupils " in many areas.
So a headteacher at the top of his profession cannot do his job, and the teachers who have degrees and a minimum of five years experience were also found to be " inconsistant ".
Offsted must be wrong then?
I think you will find there are many.
As I know roughly where you live, check the Offsted report for Bexleyheath school 2007.
The headteacher was sacked and the teachers were vilified in their report.
I think I have said this before on here.
The school had a new headteacher in who has turned the school around but a whole five years of pupils education was wasted by a school that Offsted said was " miserably failings it's pupils " in many areas.
So a headteacher at the top of his profession cannot do his job, and the teachers who have degrees and a minimum of five years experience were also found to be " inconsistant ".
Offsted must be wrong then?
There were always children who left secondary education being unable to read or write, even in the halcyon days of education that you hark back to. They swept roads and factory floors if unlucky and became tradesmen if they were lucky. The problem now is that many of those jobs have gone for ever.
My daughter's geography A level coursework was similar to what I did at university. There has been no dumbing down of education. Education is different now and children have different skills. They have far greater ability to work independently, doing their own research, than I ever had with my 'learning by rote' education.
My daughter's geography A level coursework was similar to what I did at university. There has been no dumbing down of education. Education is different now and children have different skills. They have far greater ability to work independently, doing their own research, than I ever had with my 'learning by rote' education.
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
There are many professions that are well known for not paying decent wages....hotels or retail and supermarkets in some cases.
I have not got a clue what they pay their staff, it depends on the kind of work they do I suppose. But nobody is forced to work there either.
But if they didn't they would be in danger of being labeled scroungers ;-)
Quote by kentswingers777
So are you saying we have NO failing schools?
I think you will find there are many.
As I know roughly where you live, check the Offsted report for Bexleyheath school 2007.
The headteacher was sacked and the teachers were vilified in their report.
I think I have said this before on here.
The school had a new headteacher in who has turned the school around but a whole five years of pupils education was wasted by a school that Offsted said was " miserably failings it's pupils " in many areas.
So a headteacher at the top of his profession cannot do his job, and the teachers who have degrees and a minimum of five years experience were also found to be " inconsistant ".
Offsted must be wrong then?
so it about the teachers failings??
what about the kids??
shouldn't they also take responsibilty for some of these failings aswell?
like i said if they don't want to learn you can't force them.
and why not put some of this blame on the parents aswell while we at it,if some parents can't give a monkeys arse what their kids are learning at school then why should the kids. Schools could do alot more with the support from parents and not just blaming it all on the teachers!
The problem with you is like alot of other people,when the exam results come out every year, and it looks like a good one for the pupils,you go and blame the exams being dumbed down,why not just accept that it's down to better educated pupils instead for once!
Quote by kentswingers777
Then maybe your child is at a good school.
Both of Mrs777's kids went to that very same school I have mentioned above.
I suppose it depends if you are lucky enough to have your child at a good school.
There are many though that are not....we should know.
It doesn't matter what the school is, the examining board sets the curriculum for all the schools taking its exams. The point is that the high levels of success that our children achieve throughout the country are being achieved in a curriculum that children of the 60s and 70s would have struggled with. Education has changed for a changing world.
Quote by northwest-cpl
Then maybe your child is at a good school.
Both of Mrs777's kids went to that very same school I have mentioned above.
I suppose it depends if you are lucky enough to have your child at a good school.
There are many though that are not....we should know.
It doesn't matter what the school is, the examining board sets the curriculum for all the schools taking its exams. The point is that the high levels of success that our children achieve throughout the country are being achieved in a curriculum that children of the 60s and 70s would have struggled with. Education has changed for a changing world.
Can you substantiate that claim? Being a pupil of the 60s and early 70s and having a teenage daughter now, there is no way I would have struggled with the current curricula, nor would the vast majority of my fellow pupils.
