Welcome aboard... enjoy your stay...
Exits are to the rear, the mid and the front of the plane... toliets located at the rear.
Above you are emergency breathing apparatus, which will become available to you in the even of an emergency.
The in flight movie is 'Debbie Does Darlington'
/TheKid
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TheAnalogKid
Over 90 days ago
Straight Male, 120
0 miles · Cheshire
Forum
hummm this is a very tricky area.
Let's cast aside the preventative measures issue for a moment.
I'm not saying Swingers are promiscuous. That's an unfair assumption. But let's say they have multiple partners - for the sake of argument.
When you join a swinging community, not only do you increase the number of partners YOU are having sex with, but also the people you choose to have sex with will have increased numbers. This means that your chances of catching something are actually far greater than if you were the one half who slept around, but chose to sleep only with other folk that didn't.
Of course it's impossible to tell who sleeps around and who doesn't. But if you're working on the principle that swingers tend to have more partners than the average (bit assumption), then things get quite dangerous.
Now, there's a serious flaw in this logic. And that is two fold. The first being that many swingers don't actually sleep around a great deal. And secondly, they often take precautions above and beyond what the 'average' do. It's (I would say) less common for swingers to end up having unsafe sex than it is for your typical Friday night one night stand scenario.
On the whole, I'd have to say it just about cancels each other out. You're moving into a circle where sex with multiple partners is more widespread, therefore at much higher risk of infection, but also in a community where safer sex is practiced more frequently... you take you pick about how you think the balance lies.
/TheKid
Let's cast aside the preventative measures issue for a moment.
I'm not saying Swingers are promiscuous. That's an unfair assumption. But let's say they have multiple partners - for the sake of argument.
When you join a swinging community, not only do you increase the number of partners YOU are having sex with, but also the people you choose to have sex with will have increased numbers. This means that your chances of catching something are actually far greater than if you were the one half who slept around, but chose to sleep only with other folk that didn't.
Of course it's impossible to tell who sleeps around and who doesn't. But if you're working on the principle that swingers tend to have more partners than the average (bit assumption), then things get quite dangerous.
Now, there's a serious flaw in this logic. And that is two fold. The first being that many swingers don't actually sleep around a great deal. And secondly, they often take precautions above and beyond what the 'average' do. It's (I would say) less common for swingers to end up having unsafe sex than it is for your typical Friday night one night stand scenario.
On the whole, I'd have to say it just about cancels each other out. You're moving into a circle where sex with multiple partners is more widespread, therefore at much higher risk of infection, but also in a community where safer sex is practiced more frequently... you take you pick about how you think the balance lies.
/TheKid
It can happen, but as Harry said... it's usually someone you're with having a 'friend'.
I've managed it in a FFFM situation and have to say it was just 'fun'. In no way was it as intimate or erotic as one to one.
I'm pretty sure that with most group situations that's the case... more fun less intimate. Good luck though mate.
/TheKid
P.S.
You could try a club... that's certainly a better bet, esp if you already have a partner with you.
I've managed it in a FFFM situation and have to say it was just 'fun'. In no way was it as intimate or erotic as one to one.
I'm pretty sure that with most group situations that's the case... more fun less intimate. Good luck though mate.
/TheKid
P.S.
You could try a club... that's certainly a better bet, esp if you already have a partner with you.
I didn't say it was ok... I said it's not what you do, it the way in which you do it...
If you're hiding your activities, be it webcam or video or real life, then there's really only a handful of explanations.
a) because there's some feeling of guilt / embrassment involved
b) some notion of 'protecting' your partner - what they don't know won't hurt them.
c) because you've already been told not to, and have chosen to anyway.
No matter what the motive... hiding the activity is still deceipt. Even if it's lying by omission of the truth.
I'm not condemning nor condoning it... merely trying to tell the truth. You know when the truth's gonna hurt your partner, and so hiding it might help prevent that hurt.... nevertheless, going ahead with an activity that could potentially hurt them is a gamble... which means you're prepared to gamble with their feelings, for what?... your own?
It's a tough call, and this happens almost everyday... in matters other than sexual too. Please don't feel I'm having a personal go at you, that's not the case... I just think it's a great topic!
Whilst none of your ads state a requirement for full sex, it's also true that they hardly make clear that 'soft swinging' is your limit. I'd call it keeping options open!
If you're hiding your activities, be it webcam or video or real life, then there's really only a handful of explanations.
a) because there's some feeling of guilt / embrassment involved
b) some notion of 'protecting' your partner - what they don't know won't hurt them.
c) because you've already been told not to, and have chosen to anyway.
No matter what the motive... hiding the activity is still deceipt. Even if it's lying by omission of the truth.
I'm not condemning nor condoning it... merely trying to tell the truth. You know when the truth's gonna hurt your partner, and so hiding it might help prevent that hurt.... nevertheless, going ahead with an activity that could potentially hurt them is a gamble... which means you're prepared to gamble with their feelings, for what?... your own?
It's a tough call, and this happens almost everyday... in matters other than sexual too. Please don't feel I'm having a personal go at you, that's not the case... I just think it's a great topic!
Whilst none of your ads state a requirement for full sex, it's also true that they hardly make clear that 'soft swinging' is your limit. I'd call it keeping options open!
Totally agree with an expiration date... although it should be easy for folks to simply refresh their advert to keep it for longer...
It would be nice if one advert worked for multiple categories... failing that, you'd have to create a 'looking for more than one thing' category.
Keeping old adverts only keeps the pic collectors happy, nobody else, and it takes up a) bandwidth and b) server space.
It would be nice if one advert worked for multiple categories... failing that, you'd have to create a 'looking for more than one thing' category.
Keeping old adverts only keeps the pic collectors happy, nobody else, and it takes up a) bandwidth and b) server space.
... if you're keeping it from your wife... whatever you do then it's deceipt.
If you caught your wife watching your broother have sex and getting aroused by it... I'm damn sure you'd want to know.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being voyeuristic, it's not what you do... it's how you go about it. Your name 'bad hubby' already implies you have some semblance of knowledge that what you're doing might well be an issue.
I'm married too... I know what it's like, that said, doesn't make everything 'ok' does it? You have to make your own decisions, but acept that couples might choose to do the same and decline to take part in 'fun' with you.
And don't gimme the 'just watching' crap. You can get your 'just watching' kicks via webcam, or video etc... you want the intimacy and kick of real life... emphasis being on 'real'. That's what I'd call real deceipt too.
If you caught your wife watching your broother have sex and getting aroused by it... I'm damn sure you'd want to know.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being voyeuristic, it's not what you do... it's how you go about it. Your name 'bad hubby' already implies you have some semblance of knowledge that what you're doing might well be an issue.
I'm married too... I know what it's like, that said, doesn't make everything 'ok' does it? You have to make your own decisions, but acept that couples might choose to do the same and decline to take part in 'fun' with you.
And don't gimme the 'just watching' crap. You can get your 'just watching' kicks via webcam, or video etc... you want the intimacy and kick of real life... emphasis being on 'real'. That's what I'd call real deceipt too.
when a couple mutually consent to sex outside of their marriage it's not cheating on each other... cheating implies deceipt.
The moral issue of hypocrisy given wedding vows etc is another matter, but one of the advantages of swinging is the open nature of the relationship, and the mutual consent.
I'm not going to judge on whether it's right or wrong for a married woman or man to have sex without their partners consent, but you can't skirt around the fundamental fact that's it's deceipt. There are many reasons why folk do it, some bullshit, some understandable, nevertheless... it's still deceipt.
Some couples choose not to make moral decisions for you, and allow you to make them yourself. Others choose not to be a party to deceipt in the first place. I guess you should cast the sex to one side for a while and maybe just talk with them about their thinking process, and try to understand it from their point of view. Sometimes, they might even bend towards your point of view too... but as long as it looks like you're just after a quickie behind the wife's back... it's never going to appeal on a wide scale is it?
/TheKid
The moral issue of hypocrisy given wedding vows etc is another matter, but one of the advantages of swinging is the open nature of the relationship, and the mutual consent.
I'm not going to judge on whether it's right or wrong for a married woman or man to have sex without their partners consent, but you can't skirt around the fundamental fact that's it's deceipt. There are many reasons why folk do it, some bullshit, some understandable, nevertheless... it's still deceipt.
Some couples choose not to make moral decisions for you, and allow you to make them yourself. Others choose not to be a party to deceipt in the first place. I guess you should cast the sex to one side for a while and maybe just talk with them about their thinking process, and try to understand it from their point of view. Sometimes, they might even bend towards your point of view too... but as long as it looks like you're just after a quickie behind the wife's back... it's never going to appeal on a wide scale is it?
/TheKid
... I've seen a lot of postings along the lines of:
"does this place provide 'results'" or
"success rate in here"
Surely you're coming into the site with the wrong attitude... it's just a community, it's not here to provide 'results' for you. You get out of a community what you put in, it's not a pick up joint, or a shop. It seems the measure of those folks 'result' is if they manage a meet and have sex.
If you're looking for just a meet and sex, then yes that can be found here, but it's a lot less effort in terms of time and money to take alternative routes for getting sex (I think you know what I mean).
Take part in the place, contribute in some way, and don't just give it the old "what can I get out of this place".... takers get noticed rapidly, and tend to get ignored 2 seconds afterwards.
Success has to be worked for, good luck.
/TheKid
"does this place provide 'results'" or
"success rate in here"
Surely you're coming into the site with the wrong attitude... it's just a community, it's not here to provide 'results' for you. You get out of a community what you put in, it's not a pick up joint, or a shop. It seems the measure of those folks 'result' is if they manage a meet and have sex.
If you're looking for just a meet and sex, then yes that can be found here, but it's a lot less effort in terms of time and money to take alternative routes for getting sex (I think you know what I mean).
Take part in the place, contribute in some way, and don't just give it the old "what can I get out of this place".... takers get noticed rapidly, and tend to get ignored 2 seconds afterwards.
Success has to be worked for, good luck.
/TheKid
it's always going to happen as soon as you mention swinging... like it or not it's 'deviant' behaviour. The majority don't do it... the minority do.
As soon as you have that situation, someone will say that swinging's unreasonable and on the whole full of extremists / sad folk. It's no worse than a bloody star trek convention.
Each to their own I say, but let folk hang themselves. I think she did that pretty well lol. A half decent 'anti swinging' lobby could have done a better hatchet job with a little more subtlety.
Yeah I timed it... didn't intend to be too accurate then got into the 'if I say 10 mins, some prÃck will come back and say, Kid, you're wrong, it was 9', so sod it... I'm an engineer... what do expect? Inaccuracies are reserved for penis size estimates lol
As soon as you have that situation, someone will say that swinging's unreasonable and on the whole full of extremists / sad folk. It's no worse than a bloody star trek convention.
Each to their own I say, but let folk hang themselves. I think she did that pretty well lol. A half decent 'anti swinging' lobby could have done a better hatchet job with a little more subtlety.
Yeah I timed it... didn't intend to be too accurate then got into the 'if I say 10 mins, some prÃck will come back and say, Kid, you're wrong, it was 9', so sod it... I'm an engineer... what do expect? Inaccuracies are reserved for penis size estimates lol
Once you have visited a site, it doesn't matter if you close down your windows and only have the BBC site open with Messenger... javascript can still run in an invisible window. This happens a lot when suddenly a pop up appears.
I can categorically assure you that MSN messenger dows not cause popup advertisements. That's a fact. Next time this happens, press CTRL+ALT+DEL and kill internet explorer. The pop up will be killed with it... it's launched solely by Internet Explorer, NOT Messenger.
But this is not the point... pop ups aren't the only delivery technique for trojans and 'spyware'.
This is going to get all very messy now... but half of the spyware detection applications are... you guessed it, spyware.
Secondly, 'spyware' does not mean you're being monitored per se. It's a definition given to programs that establish a connection back to some server for a multitude of purposes, and those that aren't clearly defined are considered 'spyware' in a generic sense.
My advice to the majority of you would be:
a) Stick to explorer is you have to, but consider alternative such as Opera or Netscape for web browsing etc.
b) Be more aware of what you're accepting when you visit chat sites that say 'if asked to allow this application to install - click yes'... even this site does that.
c) DON'T fall into this trap of 'install this to find yet more trojans'... you're digging a deeper hole. Stick with ONE decent virus checker and one decent firewall.
d) learn about how your firewall works, and use it properly. It is not a guarantee of safety, just a tool to help you improve it.
e) Keep your pics, and personal details OFF the pc, put them on a safe CD or floppy, and only pull them out as and when you need them. If you value your privacy, take private files off the pc when it's going to be an internet pc.
Finally - I'm telling you, it's not , or Microsoft, or any of those companies pushing this crap on you. Use your heads, it's the two bit 'download this to fix everything on your pc, internet washing, history cleaning, super duper protector' crap.
/TheKid
I can categorically assure you that MSN messenger dows not cause popup advertisements. That's a fact. Next time this happens, press CTRL+ALT+DEL and kill internet explorer. The pop up will be killed with it... it's launched solely by Internet Explorer, NOT Messenger.
But this is not the point... pop ups aren't the only delivery technique for trojans and 'spyware'.
This is going to get all very messy now... but half of the spyware detection applications are... you guessed it, spyware.
Secondly, 'spyware' does not mean you're being monitored per se. It's a definition given to programs that establish a connection back to some server for a multitude of purposes, and those that aren't clearly defined are considered 'spyware' in a generic sense.
My advice to the majority of you would be:
a) Stick to explorer is you have to, but consider alternative such as Opera or Netscape for web browsing etc.
b) Be more aware of what you're accepting when you visit chat sites that say 'if asked to allow this application to install - click yes'... even this site does that.
c) DON'T fall into this trap of 'install this to find yet more trojans'... you're digging a deeper hole. Stick with ONE decent virus checker and one decent firewall.
d) learn about how your firewall works, and use it properly. It is not a guarantee of safety, just a tool to help you improve it.
e) Keep your pics, and personal details OFF the pc, put them on a safe CD or floppy, and only pull them out as and when you need them. If you value your privacy, take private files off the pc when it's going to be an internet pc.
Finally - I'm telling you, it's not , or Microsoft, or any of those companies pushing this crap on you. Use your heads, it's the two bit 'download this to fix everything on your pc, internet washing, history cleaning, super duper protector' crap.
/TheKid
Hold on folk... take a wider view here.... for a moment,
The owners of LeChambre were allocated 9 minutes of 'pro' swinging air time, and I'd say they did a relatively decent job of promotion.
Jeremy Vine then mentioned another couple having messaged into the show to support swinging...
On the other side was the 'anti' side Lynnette Burrows was given 2 minutes of airtime
Spencer the artist from Manchester was allocated 1 minute 15 seconds and had a negative, but overly strong view.
Ritch from Exeter was mentioned on the air in support of it.
Steve from Cardiff was given air time of 2 minutes 40 seconds in support of it.
So based on the 3 files on this site... it's
In favour = 11 mins 40 secs (Lechamber owners 9 minutes,Ritch From exeter = Mentioned, Steve from cardiff 2 mins 40 secs)
Against = 3 minutes 15 secs (Lynette Burrows 2 minutes, Spencer from Manchester 1 minute 15 seconds)
Be reasonable folks.... it was a good deal for Swinging, not a bad one... it was positive and whilst Lynette Burrows is entitled to her opinion, she came across as intolerant, whilst (expectedly) the swingers came across as more liberal.
Swinging isn't everybody's cup of tea, and for some, it's wrong. Don't knock them for thinking it's wrong. We don't want folk knocking us for thinking it's right.
Right, I've said my piece.... back to your beds!!
/TheKid
The owners of LeChambre were allocated 9 minutes of 'pro' swinging air time, and I'd say they did a relatively decent job of promotion.
Jeremy Vine then mentioned another couple having messaged into the show to support swinging...
On the other side was the 'anti' side Lynnette Burrows was given 2 minutes of airtime
Spencer the artist from Manchester was allocated 1 minute 15 seconds and had a negative, but overly strong view.
Ritch from Exeter was mentioned on the air in support of it.
Steve from Cardiff was given air time of 2 minutes 40 seconds in support of it.
So based on the 3 files on this site... it's
In favour = 11 mins 40 secs (Lechamber owners 9 minutes,Ritch From exeter = Mentioned, Steve from cardiff 2 mins 40 secs)
Against = 3 minutes 15 secs (Lynette Burrows 2 minutes, Spencer from Manchester 1 minute 15 seconds)
Be reasonable folks.... it was a good deal for Swinging, not a bad one... it was positive and whilst Lynette Burrows is entitled to her opinion, she came across as intolerant, whilst (expectedly) the swingers came across as more liberal.
Swinging isn't everybody's cup of tea, and for some, it's wrong. Don't knock them for thinking it's wrong. We don't want folk knocking us for thinking it's right.
Right, I've said my piece.... back to your beds!!
/TheKid
..once can't help but wonder what sort of woman would meet a man who could lose his cool so quickly.
I'm sick and tired of folk that equate swinging with casual sex. The two aren't the same thing. I don't object to those that want casual sex, but sick of folk whinging on here who feel they are 'owed' it.
Part of swinging is the sexual attraction in other people, and to appreciate that, you need a mind. The more of a mind you have, the greater you can turn that situation into something more and more erotic.
Now there's always a case for the total stranger being erotic, but, women don't need to use sites like this to get a total stranger into bed... any friday night in a nightclub would soon sort that issue out. This site offers them a greater period of time with which to communicate and discover aspects of a man (and vice versa) that they could use to stimulate eroticism... with the actual meeting only a part of all that. It's in their heads where the stimulation really comes, and you don't get into someones head with a 'do me now' attitude.
/TheKid (with a do me later attitude)
I'm sick and tired of folk that equate swinging with casual sex. The two aren't the same thing. I don't object to those that want casual sex, but sick of folk whinging on here who feel they are 'owed' it.
Part of swinging is the sexual attraction in other people, and to appreciate that, you need a mind. The more of a mind you have, the greater you can turn that situation into something more and more erotic.
Now there's always a case for the total stranger being erotic, but, women don't need to use sites like this to get a total stranger into bed... any friday night in a nightclub would soon sort that issue out. This site offers them a greater period of time with which to communicate and discover aspects of a man (and vice versa) that they could use to stimulate eroticism... with the actual meeting only a part of all that. It's in their heads where the stimulation really comes, and you don't get into someones head with a 'do me now' attitude.
/TheKid (with a do me later attitude)
it's not true that you need to click a link in .... allows html mail to be rendered.
Html allows popups and software deliverables (programs) to be pushed to you. When you open a (oranother other mail program) that supports html presented mail (that means fancy colours and pictures in your mail), then it can also cause you to start a download of software..... no link clicking, not even opening the mail (if you use outlook express' preview pane etc).
Regarding Marks comment on 'Trojans'... any software you install can also be tagged along with a dialer (this then becomes a trojan since it's masquerading as something it's not... or something that fails to tell you what ELSE it is). All you nice folk out there looking for cracks for your latest program will be downloading nice 'serial number generators' etc. Do so at your own risk. They are often rife with spyware. Play with fire, expect to get burnt.
There are many tool on the market allowing the splicing of two programs together... so that the first will still install, and the second be installed silently. This is so damn easy it's untrue... and therefore it's a hackers dream to be able to send you a lovely copy of 'photoshop', or 'latest mirc patches' etc... little beknown to you, it's doing what it says on the box... but doing a fair bit more besides.
Good luck out there, it's a dirty old word *grin*
/TheKid
Html allows popups and software deliverables (programs) to be pushed to you. When you open a (oranother other mail program) that supports html presented mail (that means fancy colours and pictures in your mail), then it can also cause you to start a download of software..... no link clicking, not even opening the mail (if you use outlook express' preview pane etc).
Regarding Marks comment on 'Trojans'... any software you install can also be tagged along with a dialer (this then becomes a trojan since it's masquerading as something it's not... or something that fails to tell you what ELSE it is). All you nice folk out there looking for cracks for your latest program will be downloading nice 'serial number generators' etc. Do so at your own risk. They are often rife with spyware. Play with fire, expect to get burnt.
There are many tool on the market allowing the splicing of two programs together... so that the first will still install, and the second be installed silently. This is so damn easy it's untrue... and therefore it's a hackers dream to be able to send you a lovely copy of 'photoshop', or 'latest mirc patches' etc... little beknown to you, it's doing what it says on the box... but doing a fair bit more besides.
Good luck out there, it's a dirty old word *grin*
/TheKid
Dialers do not arrive via ' ' per se.
They can arrive via email on any account... but they seldom do so, the majority arrive in pushed frames (web popups). Some forms of javascript can exploit buffer overflow errors in Explorer and install, but the number one technique for dialers is the mass popup technique.
Multiple popups appear on your desktop, with numerous 'fake' anumated gifs of 'installing software' etc... people then tend to start clicking God knows what in an attempt to get rid of them... as a result, they often end up accepting the installation of a dialer inadvertently.
Beware folks, some of those dialers will dial without your confirmation - check your phone bills for strange numbers... They tend to call premium rate numbers for periods less than 5 minutes a couple of times per day... thus hiding themselves in your bill. (they make a profit by taking commission from the number and duration of calls they receive).
DerbyStud's not being a total git over this, just misled. Making an assumption about the source of a dialer, rather than knowing so for sure. In order for him to be sure, he must have seen the dialer pushed at him from the site, and if so, ought to have rejected it. In truth, he's been to this site (and no doubt a number of others) then discovered a dialer, and lo and behold, jumped to conclusions.
Great site Mark, and I think you did the right thing keeping this thread open. These things tend to go 'underground' if you don't and rumour mills start working.
/The Kid
They can arrive via email on any account... but they seldom do so, the majority arrive in pushed frames (web popups). Some forms of javascript can exploit buffer overflow errors in Explorer and install, but the number one technique for dialers is the mass popup technique.
Multiple popups appear on your desktop, with numerous 'fake' anumated gifs of 'installing software' etc... people then tend to start clicking God knows what in an attempt to get rid of them... as a result, they often end up accepting the installation of a dialer inadvertently.
Beware folks, some of those dialers will dial without your confirmation - check your phone bills for strange numbers... They tend to call premium rate numbers for periods less than 5 minutes a couple of times per day... thus hiding themselves in your bill. (they make a profit by taking commission from the number and duration of calls they receive).
DerbyStud's not being a total git over this, just misled. Making an assumption about the source of a dialer, rather than knowing so for sure. In order for him to be sure, he must have seen the dialer pushed at him from the site, and if so, ought to have rejected it. In truth, he's been to this site (and no doubt a number of others) then discovered a dialer, and lo and behold, jumped to conclusions.
Great site Mark, and I think you did the right thing keeping this thread open. These things tend to go 'underground' if you don't and rumour mills start working.
/The Kid
I agree Amanda... crosses my mind all the time. It's why I didn't say it.
It's strange y'know... that the behaviour of idiots ends up affecting our own behaviour because we don't want to come across like them.
It's the same with complimenting someone. These sorts of places are so full of insincere compliments, that it devaules the times when they are sincere. It's a real shame. Nevertheless, I reserve mine for times when I suspect they might be interpreted as a genuine gesture... few and far between, but worthwhile.
Heres to putting the fashion back into 'old fashioned'
/TheKid
It's strange y'know... that the behaviour of idiots ends up affecting our own behaviour because we don't want to come across like them.
It's the same with complimenting someone. These sorts of places are so full of insincere compliments, that it devaules the times when they are sincere. It's a real shame. Nevertheless, I reserve mine for times when I suspect they might be interpreted as a genuine gesture... few and far between, but worthwhile.
Heres to putting the fashion back into 'old fashioned'
/TheKid
Hotscot... not sure it's "the norm", but can you hand on heart say it's a surprise? This is predominantly a free site based upon sex! It will always attract passers by chancing their arm at a bit of tittilation.
I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's par for the course, and it's foolish to expect not to encounter it. Most swingers take measures to filter out the idiots, but there are always a handful that seem highly plausible and turn out to be frauds. It's just life.
One of the greatest filtering techniques is old father time... genuine folk tend to stick around a lot longer than the ones looking for immediate gratification. I think that's an indication of why so many people criticise so quickly; because they've not had much luck in the early days of coming to the site. Stick it out, and it's remarkable how people observe behaviour over a period of time, and then approach only when they have good reason to suspect you're a half decent bloke.
/TheKid
I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's par for the course, and it's foolish to expect not to encounter it. Most swingers take measures to filter out the idiots, but there are always a handful that seem highly plausible and turn out to be frauds. It's just life.
One of the greatest filtering techniques is old father time... genuine folk tend to stick around a lot longer than the ones looking for immediate gratification. I think that's an indication of why so many people criticise so quickly; because they've not had much luck in the early days of coming to the site. Stick it out, and it's remarkable how people observe behaviour over a period of time, and then approach only when they have good reason to suspect you're a half decent bloke.
/TheKid
