Here's how the new proposal would look in the current site design. I have to say I think it simply doesn't work. The text is too small, and the colours too weak, it's clearly being overpowered by the rest of the layout. That's not to say it couldn't work with a sympathetic redesign of the rest of the site, but as it stands...
I'll come back with a design or two of my own when I have time to fit it round my paying clients, but I'd still like to see 'keep the current logo' as a poll option, or a brief about what a new logo is intended to achieve, otherwise I'm going to be blundering about in the dark.
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Mr_D_and_HotTart
Over 90 days ago
Bisexual Male, 57
Bisexual Female, 62
0 miles · Hereford and Worcester
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The oval element of the current design is used on the SH Pins, so losing that would render the pins that people put a lot of time and effort into creating rather meaningless.
I have to say I'm of the opinion that if it ain't broken, don't fix it... can we have that option in the poll too?
While this site does have a slightly home-made (or perhaps I should say naive?) graphic feel to it, I think that is one of the reasons it's successful, it makes it easy for people to believe the page that says this is a free site if it doesn't look like it's had a fortune spent on designers.
As a designer, I guess I have to ask the client for a brief... How do you want to reposition the brand? Do you want to remove the Union Jack element to allow the site a more international appeal? Does your choice of more subdued blue colours on the new proposal intended to tie in with a new colour scheme for the html elements of the site? Is the current logo (or indeed the proposed one) with it's female form sufficiently 'PC'?
I have to say I'm of the opinion that if it ain't broken, don't fix it... can we have that option in the poll too?
While this site does have a slightly home-made (or perhaps I should say naive?) graphic feel to it, I think that is one of the reasons it's successful, it makes it easy for people to believe the page that says this is a free site if it doesn't look like it's had a fortune spent on designers.
As a designer, I guess I have to ask the client for a brief... How do you want to reposition the brand? Do you want to remove the Union Jack element to allow the site a more international appeal? Does your choice of more subdued blue colours on the new proposal intended to tie in with a new colour scheme for the html elements of the site? Is the current logo (or indeed the proposed one) with it's female form sufficiently 'PC'?
If you look at only the red portions of the logo, it's someone listening hard to hear something that's being drowned out by a blue twat with a trumpet, symbolising the crossed line. The missing foot symbolises the wobbliness of the organisation, while the forked tongue is indicative of the difference between their sales force's promises and the bills you actually get.
Hmm... I'm not convinced. Surely the word 'Fat' is almost universally understood to be an insult - as visit to any school playground will confirm?
BBW has a much more positive connotation for me, much closer to 'Voluptious" than "Obese".
Oh and just for the record, I found out two things at the weekend... firstly that I'm a size 14, and secondly that I temporarily wished I was size 10 :shock:
BBW has a much more positive connotation for me, much closer to 'Voluptious" than "Obese".
Oh and just for the record, I found out two things at the weekend... firstly that I'm a size 14, and secondly that I temporarily wished I was size 10 :shock:
Legally, you have to pay for the copyright for a re-recording of a 'musically significant portion' of an existing piece of music, so all the songs mentioned so far can't be free, unless they are out of copyright, which happens 70 years after the author's death.
This rules out almost everything I can think of that's Swing related... Even something really old, like Swing Low Sweet Chariot (written in 1919, author died in 1949) has many years of copyright remaining. Sound recordings have a 50 year limit on them, but unless we find a swing band recording from before 1945 that we all like, I don't hold out much hope of a good source there.
Really, it boils down to making a new piece of music, 30 seconds long, then converting it to phone compatible formats, and then somehow arranging delivery to phones. I've made a few of my own ringtones (I have a little recording studio here, and wanted something vert distinctive, so I can be 100% sure when I hear it, that it's my phone and nobody else's), and it's not too hard to do if your phone plays mp3s.
I'm sure we have enough homegrown talent round here to make an exclusive tune, which we can share at munches, or offer to the new owners to do all the difficult stuff that supplies the results to non mp3 phones, via wap, etc.
I'm more than willing to take a stab at composing a tune, but i'm not sure I'll be able to come up with something that everyone will like, especially as the last time we had a 'what music do you like' thread, everyone from Nine Inch Nails to Donny Osmond was mentioned!
This rules out almost everything I can think of that's Swing related... Even something really old, like Swing Low Sweet Chariot (written in 1919, author died in 1949) has many years of copyright remaining. Sound recordings have a 50 year limit on them, but unless we find a swing band recording from before 1945 that we all like, I don't hold out much hope of a good source there.
Really, it boils down to making a new piece of music, 30 seconds long, then converting it to phone compatible formats, and then somehow arranging delivery to phones. I've made a few of my own ringtones (I have a little recording studio here, and wanted something vert distinctive, so I can be 100% sure when I hear it, that it's my phone and nobody else's), and it's not too hard to do if your phone plays mp3s.
I'm sure we have enough homegrown talent round here to make an exclusive tune, which we can share at munches, or offer to the new owners to do all the difficult stuff that supplies the results to non mp3 phones, via wap, etc.
I'm more than willing to take a stab at composing a tune, but i'm not sure I'll be able to come up with something that everyone will like, especially as the last time we had a 'what music do you like' thread, everyone from Nine Inch Nails to Donny Osmond was mentioned!
I'll simply say this... Mark is someone I had an awful lot of respect for. Please note the use of the past tense.
EDIT: (Unable to access my Computer)
"Just a quick note to say this post was not originally a thread starter and has been turned into a new thread without my knowledge. In context, it was one slightly dissenting voice in an avalanche of praise, which accuratley reflected my opinion. Taken out of context as it now is, I feel is comes across as a far harsher criticism of Mark than I intended. I sincerely meant the first part of my post, my respect for Mark
was indeed deep and genuine. I know Mark didn't take his decision lightly, and I'm sure he's wrestled long and hard with the fact that 'taking the money' would lose him some of the respect that he has built up over the years."
EDIT: (Unable to access my Computer)
"Just a quick note to say this post was not originally a thread starter and has been turned into a new thread without my knowledge. In context, it was one slightly dissenting voice in an avalanche of praise, which accuratley reflected my opinion. Taken out of context as it now is, I feel is comes across as a far harsher criticism of Mark than I intended. I sincerely meant the first part of my post, my respect for Mark
was indeed deep and genuine. I know Mark didn't take his decision lightly, and I'm sure he's wrestled long and hard with the fact that 'taking the money' would lose him some of the respect that he has built up over the years."
As you admit to not knowing the site too well, here's a bit of constructive feedback on your proposals...
One fundamantal point you may have missed about this site is that it's actually 4 different fairly insular communities, that only have limited cross-over.
1) The Cafe/Let's Meet Up crowd are the ones you are talking to now. We are probably the most resistant to change, and we are also quite possibly the biggest drain on bandwidth, racking up 1000s of page hits per day each.
2) The chatroom crowd. Lovely people, excellent speed readers, but have a tendency to press x dozens of times whenever someone they know turns up. The hardcore use MIRC and therefore probably can't be advertised to.
3) The Dogging Forum people. Some overlap with the rest of the site, but it can be seen as a bit of a ghetto. Not much revenue potential unless you can do a deal with NCP car parks.
4) Photo Ad users. As you know if you've looked at the traffic figures, this is the big bit of the site, but the crossover from there to the other parts isn't as big as you might imagine. Probably your best bet for money making, as this is the part of the site with the most transient visitors, and the part of the site that people would probably expect to be a commerical venture.
Because this site is so split, unless you want to drive traffic from one section to another, I don't really see the value of a unified log-in, tying in IRC will present headaches, and the ability to ban people from certain parts of the ite but ot others will need work to support.
The site already provides this! See "Personal Pages" on the lefthand menu. I assume you mean more photos in the photo ads, where there is a limit of 3? Nice, but non essential, and it will cost you a lot of bandwidth.
Hmm, we already have 'reply to photo ads', the ability to PVT in chat, and PM on the forum. Each has their uses, so unification seems once again to be tricky, and unnecessary.
As I have said before... nice, but difficult. The current resistance to camming can be seen by the site policy of only allowing people to mention camming in one single thread over in 'Let's Meet up'. I thnk there is potential for money making there, but probably not from the forum crowd.
We already have forum profiles, and the Photo Ads. Another idea thet I think falls into the 'diffcult and not really beneficial' category.
Again, nice, but problematic. People move about, can't spell, or wish to keep their location secret.
Long overdue... but has to be paid for somehow!
I'm glad to see you have lots of ideas, and a drive to make the site better. I'm sure the SH community will be happy to 'muck in' and help with suggestions and (where needed) manpower. You have bought access to this resource, so why not use it, and ask us how you could do things better or make money without driving us away?
Quote by Elliot
The new features:
One unified login and members area for the whole site...
One fundamantal point you may have missed about this site is that it's actually 4 different fairly insular communities, that only have limited cross-over.
1) The Cafe/Let's Meet Up crowd are the ones you are talking to now. We are probably the most resistant to change, and we are also quite possibly the biggest drain on bandwidth, racking up 1000s of page hits per day each.
2) The chatroom crowd. Lovely people, excellent speed readers, but have a tendency to press x dozens of times whenever someone they know turns up. The hardcore use MIRC and therefore probably can't be advertised to.
3) The Dogging Forum people. Some overlap with the rest of the site, but it can be seen as a bit of a ghetto. Not much revenue potential unless you can do a deal with NCP car parks.
4) Photo Ad users. As you know if you've looked at the traffic figures, this is the big bit of the site, but the crossover from there to the other parts isn't as big as you might imagine. Probably your best bet for money making, as this is the part of the site with the most transient visitors, and the part of the site that people would probably expect to be a commerical venture.
Because this site is so split, unless you want to drive traffic from one section to another, I don't really see the value of a unified log-in, tying in IRC will present headaches, and the ability to ban people from certain parts of the ite but ot others will need work to support.
Quote by Elliot
Unlimited pictures
The site already provides this! See "Personal Pages" on the lefthand menu. I assume you mean more photos in the photo ads, where there is a limit of 3? Nice, but non essential, and it will cost you a lot of bandwidth.
Quote by Elliot
Site messaging
Hmm, we already have 'reply to photo ads', the ability to PVT in chat, and PM on the forum. Each has their uses, so unification seems once again to be tricky, and unnecessary.
Quote by Elliot
Video chat room
As I have said before... nice, but difficult. The current resistance to camming can be seen by the site policy of only allowing people to mention camming in one single thread over in 'Let's Meet up'. I thnk there is potential for money making there, but probably not from the forum crowd.
Quote by Elliot
User profiles
We already have forum profiles, and the Photo Ads. Another idea thet I think falls into the 'diffcult and not really beneficial' category.
Quote by Elliot
Distance displays
Again, nice, but problematic. People move about, can't spell, or wish to keep their location secret.
Quote by Elliot
An ultra boost in speed
Long overdue... but has to be paid for somehow!
Quote by Elliot
...And many more…
I'm glad to see you have lots of ideas, and a drive to make the site better. I'm sure the SH community will be happy to 'muck in' and help with suggestions and (where needed) manpower. You have bought access to this resource, so why not use it, and ask us how you could do things better or make money without driving us away?
Well, in the spirit of good will, here's how I think this site could make a profit without annoying the regulars.
1) While web devlopers always see the potential for improvement (I know, I am one!) fundamentally, this site isn't broken, and doesn't need fixing. Enhancements like a site-wide log-in are not important to the users, and the site does not lose traffic because we don't have that now.
2) Saving on the outgoings: This bandwidth-heavy portion of this site is the photo ads, if you want to make savings and improve the site, some sort of automated filtering of the huge number of bogus photo ads is probably top priority - 'Women Seeking Men' is a prime target for scammers and your competitors to do damage.
3) Keep the ad-ons visually seperate. A paid webcam site is a good idea, but trying to bolt it on to SH will meet with resisance. Why not build a different site for that, then use the banner ad position top right (and free memberships for use if you feel that's viable) to drive traffic to it?
4) We accept the paid for links in the Shopping menu on the left. Expanding, or renegotiating whatever deals are in place for those links is probably the first thing I'd look at to boost revenue.
1) While web devlopers always see the potential for improvement (I know, I am one!) fundamentally, this site isn't broken, and doesn't need fixing. Enhancements like a site-wide log-in are not important to the users, and the site does not lose traffic because we don't have that now.
2) Saving on the outgoings: This bandwidth-heavy portion of this site is the photo ads, if you want to make savings and improve the site, some sort of automated filtering of the huge number of bogus photo ads is probably top priority - 'Women Seeking Men' is a prime target for scammers and your competitors to do damage.
3) Keep the ad-ons visually seperate. A paid webcam site is a good idea, but trying to bolt it on to SH will meet with resisance. Why not build a different site for that, then use the banner ad position top right (and free memberships for use if you feel that's viable) to drive traffic to it?
4) We accept the paid for links in the Shopping menu on the left. Expanding, or renegotiating whatever deals are in place for those links is probably the first thing I'd look at to boost revenue.
I'm as surprised as anyone that this site has been sold, especially when all the only assets are a transient userbase, goodwill (mostly due to the free nature of the site) and a domain name.
My initial thought is that if Elliott's company bought the site expecting to turn a profit on it, then they are in for a surprise.
Traditionally, the site has only one ongoing cost, that of bandwidth and servers, and 3 revenue streams - the phone ads, the banners in the top right, and presumably some kickback from the shopping links on the left. If commercial web developers are going to be adding to the site, then they have to be paid somehow, and I simply can't see this community reaching into it's pockets to do that.
While the idea of enhancements like a video chatroom that existing members can use for free sounds initially appealing, how long will we use it for when new members come in saying they paid their money and want to see flesh?
To be honest, having a Premium membership of a pay site isn't that appealing to me, even if it is free, and that's reason I'm here and not on one of the countless pay sites that are out there.
I wait with interest to see what happens. The major thing that disappoints me so far is that Mark didn't say the site was up for sale and didn't give the community the chance to buy him out.
My initial thought is that if Elliott's company bought the site expecting to turn a profit on it, then they are in for a surprise.
Traditionally, the site has only one ongoing cost, that of bandwidth and servers, and 3 revenue streams - the phone ads, the banners in the top right, and presumably some kickback from the shopping links on the left. If commercial web developers are going to be adding to the site, then they have to be paid somehow, and I simply can't see this community reaching into it's pockets to do that.
While the idea of enhancements like a video chatroom that existing members can use for free sounds initially appealing, how long will we use it for when new members come in saying they paid their money and want to see flesh?
To be honest, having a Premium membership of a pay site isn't that appealing to me, even if it is free, and that's reason I'm here and not on one of the countless pay sites that are out there.
I wait with interest to see what happens. The major thing that disappoints me so far is that Mark didn't say the site was up for sale and didn't give the community the chance to buy him out.
This story about him not wanting to help is actually just a big misunderstanding.
His initial decision not to go for further tests was earlier, when everybody assumed that the positive diagnosis must have been wrong, and he'd been mistakenly 'living with AIDS' for years (and therefore contemplating suicide, and not using protection when sleeping with other HIV+ people) when he didn't have it at all. At that point he was considering legal action against the hospital.
As soon as retests on the samples showed that the test were accurate, and he has indeed become 'cured' he dropped the legal action and he has now promised to do whatever he can to help find a cure.
His initial decision not to go for further tests was earlier, when everybody assumed that the positive diagnosis must have been wrong, and he'd been mistakenly 'living with AIDS' for years (and therefore contemplating suicide, and not using protection when sleeping with other HIV+ people) when he didn't have it at all. At that point he was considering legal action against the hospital.
As soon as retests on the samples showed that the test were accurate, and he has indeed become 'cured' he dropped the legal action and he has now promised to do whatever he can to help find a cure.
Don't bother with flat screens yet, and especially avoid plasma ones, as they fade to half the brightness after a few years (some electical shops refuse to offer extended guarantees on plasma TVs because the know they would have to relpace them all!)
In the next 5 years or so, we'll start seeing HD-DVD and HDTV (High Definition Television) broadcasts, and you won't be able to get the full quality without a new TV. None of the supposedly 'HD compatible' TVs you can currently get are really compatible, as the british standard for HDTV has not yet been finalised.
LCD TVs are constantly getting drastically cheaper, bigger and better quality. Spending £1000 now will look like a waste in 2 or 3 years when the same set is £300 or £400, and monster screens for £1000 are commonplace.
My advice is to go to Tesco and spend under £300 on a cheap conventional (not flat) widescreen telly, then buy an expensive TV in a few years when HDTV arrives. Conventional TVs are miles better then they were a few years back, now that Sony's patent on 'trinitron' technology has run out, and you can pick up a really good 32" widescreen one for under £300.
In the next 5 years or so, we'll start seeing HD-DVD and HDTV (High Definition Television) broadcasts, and you won't be able to get the full quality without a new TV. None of the supposedly 'HD compatible' TVs you can currently get are really compatible, as the british standard for HDTV has not yet been finalised.
LCD TVs are constantly getting drastically cheaper, bigger and better quality. Spending £1000 now will look like a waste in 2 or 3 years when the same set is £300 or £400, and monster screens for £1000 are commonplace.
My advice is to go to Tesco and spend under £300 on a cheap conventional (not flat) widescreen telly, then buy an expensive TV in a few years when HDTV arrives. Conventional TVs are miles better then they were a few years back, now that Sony's patent on 'trinitron' technology has run out, and you can pick up a really good 32" widescreen one for under £300.
I don't think there is a strict definition written down anywhere, but I'd expect a munch to involve months of planning, have an attendance of over 40 people, and be held in a private room. A 'social' is less formal, probably involves less than 20 people, and dosn't have it's own private venue.
